Delimma

[tenni]

A person is in a same sex relationship and they have never had sex with the opposite gender. They love their partner but are reluctant to marry them due to a growing doubt. They find themselves increasingly desiring to find out about having sex with the opposite gender. There is one person of the opposite gender that they are attracted to and would like to have sex with them to find out if they like it. They are uncertain that if they do this that they will find that they do not want heterosexual sex. What should they do?

a/ Confide to their same sex partner their desires. Their partner states that they will not permit them to "explore" their heterosexual desires without ending their relationship first. Therefore they decide to put aside their hetero curiousity and stay in their committed relationship.

b/ Confide to their same sex partner their desires. Their partner states that they will not permit them to "explore" their heterosexual desires without ending their relationship. Therefore they should end that same sex relationship and explore their heterosexual desires.

c/ other options?

[elian]

We've had plenty of straight spouses come on here and ask for help when confronted with same-sex attraction issues - I figure this would work about the same way.

I guess it's probably normal for someone to express doubts about this topic if they don't have a lot of experience with relationships. That's pretty much the reason I'm not married right now - I knew I had same sex feelings but I was not sure to what degree, I didn't want to be in a straight relationship with a family only to decide later that I wanted something else.

Once I found this site I realized that there is a spectrum of desire, feeling and acceptance - not ONLY gay/straight. We rush to judge things as humans because it makes it easier but there are a lot of things in nature that are somewhere in between so why wouldn't romantic and sexual feelings be the same way?

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

I vote for C. Its up to the individual. If he/she wanted to explore before marriage, then that should be Their option. How is said individule going to know wheat is right for him/her unless they try it once, or even twice? I'm not suggesting a person cheat(that's not on my things to do list) but they should be given the option to "try things on" tosee how to proceed in the relationship.
For instance: Said person, lets say male, has a fling with a female to see if he likes it, and does..that May change his whole attitude about being gay and monogamous. And what if he tries it and finds it isnt really his cuppa tea? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. My thesis here is, the person should be given the right to explore his options, Then make the decision to go forth in a same sex relationship or not. Same advice for a lady.
But in the end, (no pun intended) it's all up to them.
Good luck to you, or to a friend, Tenni-Dumpling. :}
Cat's :2cents:

[swmnkdinthervr]

Ditto on C...

We as individuals have a need to grow and expand our knowledge...evolve as a person if you will, anyone stifling that need to explore with either demands or ultimatums is asking to be left behind or cause resentment.

As stated this is a question of experience centered for the most part around sex. Sex isn't love and love isn't sex, the two are completely separate issues! Insecurity is often the cause for demands as described above, if you in reality have something to worry about in your relationship your problems run deeper than sexuality!!!

Celebrate your partners exploration...you won't know what you may have gained unless they are allowed to go forward and if they pursue the other route then you really never had them.

[Gay2Bi]

A person is in a same sex relationship and they have never had sex with the opposite gender. They love their partner but are reluctant to marry them due to a growing doubt. They find themselves increasingly desiring to find out about having sex with the opposite gender. There is one person of the opposite gender that they are attracted to and would like to have sex with them to find out if they like it. They are uncertain that if they do this that they will find that they do not want heterosexual sex. What should they do?

I agree with Cat and swmnkd. Each person needs to be able to find out who they are. That might not necessarily be a comfortable process for his or her significant other, but in an ideal world his/her significant other would be supportive of his/her attempts to grow. Ultimatums, such as "you can't do this if you want to be with me," are largely born out of fear - fear that if the person tries something new and likes it, s/he will leave the significant other behind. Can that happen? Sometimes. People change, and sometimes what works for you at one point in your life might no longer work for you at another.

The real question then becomes: If this is something that I feel I need to do in order to grow as a person but my partner does not support that, should I stay in that relationship and quite possibly come to resent it, or should I do what I need to do to grow even if that means leaving the relationship behind?

Of course, we do need to distinguish between "something I need to do to grow as a person" and "gee, that looks like fun, maybe I should give it a try." In the first case, you'll feel stifled and resentful - neither of which are good for a relationship; in the second, you'll probably get over it. ;)

[Plumhead2]

I think that it is a bit more complicated. What if the relationship you are in is fantastic. Your partner is your best friend, the best-est lover, and potential spouse. Yet you still are curious and want to explore. Do you risk losing the best relationship you ever had? Or do you not and maybe become resentful. Damn, living is hard.

[NEPHX]

I think that it is a bit more complicated. What if the relationship you are in is fantastic. Your partner is your best friend, the best-est lover, and potential spouse. Yet you still are curious and want to explore. Do you risk losing the best relationship you ever had? Or do you not and maybe become resentful. Damn, living is hard.

Nice insight Plum...

Of course its complicated... :cool: But its the risk I think we all fear.

I did the option of sharing and never doing anything without that agreement.... let the chips fall where they may. It worked out for the best for us:three:. Even though eventually we went our own ways after many years, being Bi was not the specific reason for it.

I feel that if you don't share those feelings with your current partner, its a part of you he/she can't know.

I think its worth the risk of discussion because, I don't believe that one person can hit every single one of the things we might have on our list of needs/wants/desires. Exploring them together is very intense as well. But if this person does hit so many of one's needs and wants, its worth the effort. You could end up trading out for someone that lets you explore but is missing connection in other areas (already discussed by others).

It reminds me of an old quote about risk.."Ships are safe in a harbor but that's not where ships were built to sail."

Just my thoughts....

[Long Duck Dong]

what ever happened to experimenting while you are single...... it seems that so many threads focus around the right to experiment and explore while in a relationship..... and totally ignore the fact that people are single too at times in their lives....

getting in to relationships and marriages is a stage of settling down with a partner..... not the stage of woohoo, I have a partner, now its time to really up the sexual experimentation and exploration..... so why do people wait until they are * attached * before doing their experimenting......

maybe there is some hetero / religious law that forbids us from experimenting while single...... who knows..... there is a tendency to blame them for monogamy, discrimination, partners having opinions and rights...and yeah.... we even blame them for having kids ( the breeders term )

[NEPHX]

.... It's not like his sexual attractions to women and desire to try sex with a woman just suddenly came out of nowhere.

Well, actually, how do you know Sodom? It very well could have or just increased to a level of needing attention. Perhaps your statement is true for YOU but maybe not for another person.

One might not know until the situation presents itself in life. Tenni did say (theoretical story?) one women in particular. There are guys that are "one women away from being gay."

I've known MANY Gay2Bi guys and women. Sexual fluidity/desires can change over time. The amount of change and the time period varies per person and can be so dramatic for one person and always shifting or flat and never changing. Such desires can suddenly become urgent.

Much of human sexuality is affected by hormones, stress levels, life situation, physical changes, age ... all can have an affect on a persons desires. The excitement of something completely new is also a driving force in relationships as they mature.

I notice that many people discount that "having sex" with someone is not just about inserting part A into/over/on part B or whatever other definition of sex we can come up with. Its also about feeling attractive, the emotional connections, hormones, sooooo many things. Its also the "drug of choice" for the brain for many people. Its a very real high (very simply put, the brain releases endorphins during sex and which also bring down cortisol levels often released in response to stress).

The person may want to simply experience sex with another person and build a model in his brain that, since he also desires a women, she might be safer than another man since he's partnered with a man.... who knows! A therapist might dig it out. The reverse happens and is talked about in here all the time (men seeking men is safer than seeking women, etc.)

Boiled down, we can make sex/sexual desires sound simple and a matter of just "wanting to get laid" but its much more.

[NEPHX]

what ever happened to experimenting while you are single...... it seems that so many threads focus around the right to experiment and explore while in a relationship..... and totally ignore the fact that people are single too at times in their lives....


Some people marry young. Maybe they couldn't seek one sex or another when they were single because of situations, etc. Maybe they love the person they are with and don't want to lose that....

Humans are not monogamous (or serially monogamous) by nature but attempt to be by intellect. Consider estimates of the divorce rate as high as 75% or higher.... in parts of this country.

Your singular template of relationships doesn't fit everyone LDD.

[Long Duck Dong]

if they are IDed as gay, but showing bi latent desire than it can be argued that they are bi curious natured but IDing as gay.....

its the trouble with trying to lock down labels as absolutes, and not currently applied labels..... its the same argument that gays use with bi people, when they say that bi people are gays / heteros in denial.....

also arguing the nature of sex and sexual connection, is a dangerous thing to do..... as its placing a glory hole experience on the same level as a night spent flirting in a bar then home to fuck, and the same level as a weekend fling.... right thru to love making with a long term partner.....
fucking a random stranger has a different hormonal and chemical shift in the human brain and body to love making......

and I have 20 years experience doing counselling / therapy work, so I have hands on experience versus people that read books .....

[bisexual Bill]

Some people marry young. Maybe they couldn't seek one sex or another when they were single because of situations, etc. Maybe they love the person they are with and don't want to lose that....

Humans are not monogamous (or serially monogamous) by nature but attempt to be by intellect. Consider estimates of the divorce rate as high as 75% or higher.... in parts of this country.

Your singular template of relationships doesn't fit everyone LDD.

The whole "I married young!" excuse it just an excuse. Same with the whole excuse about how they couldn't seek out one sex or both while they were single. If they wanted sex with one or both sexes they could have easily found it while single.

Both of these things marrying young and not having sex with both or just one sex are personal choices that people make.

That does not mean that cheating on a partner or spouse is OK or excusable. If these people really had respect for their partner or spouse they'd break up with them or get a divorce if they want to have sex with other people.

In the case of Danreidbarmi he cheated on his wife with men in gloryholes and anonymous public sex. He lost his wife who he supposedly loves and all of this cheating destroyed his marriage.

[Long Duck Dong]

Some people marry young. Maybe they couldn't seek one sex or another when they were single because of situations, etc. Maybe they love the person they are with and don't want to lose that....

Humans are not monogamous (or serially monogamous) by nature but attempt to be by intellect. Consider estimates of the divorce rate as high as 75% or higher.... in parts of this country.

Your singular template of relationships doesn't fit everyone LDD.

my singular template of relationships ????? roflmao...... really ?????? so cos I am monogamous by nature I should stop supporting mutally agreed open relationships and marriage..... cos I am bi, I should stop supporting GLT people in relationships.....

monogamy is a commitment.... a decision and a choice...... and yes I have seen so many arguments that people are not monogamous.....
there is a choice that people can make and thats not to get into relationships and marriage, when monogamy is asked for...... but no... people do it then argue that their rights supersede their partners and they should not have to be monogamous....... and yes I agree.... but I also agree that their partner should have the right to say fuck you..... relations and marriage is over....

relationships and marriages are a two person deal..... not a one person deal..... your desire for sex doesn't supersede your partners rights, feelings and emotions.... and if you know you can not commit to what you partner wants, and they will not give you what you want...... DON"T GET MARRIED !!!!!!

[Gay2Bi]

I've known MANY Gay2Bi guys and women. Sexual fluidity/desires can change over time. The amount of change and the time period varies per person and can be so dramatic for one person and always shifting or flat and never changing. Such desires can suddenly become urgent.

Speaking from personal experience - exactly. I spent the first 30+ years of my life with no attraction to women whatsoever. A chance encounter with a bi porn scene (which I thought was gay since it started out with two men) planted the idea, and then that idea rapidly grew into me questioning everything I thought about who I was. So, yes, desires do change over time, and sometimes they change quite suddenly, which is pretty damned confusing if you happen to be the one on whom they are changing!

[Gay2Bi]

I think that it is a bit more complicated. What if the relationship you are in is fantastic. Your partner is your best friend, the best-est lover, and potential spouse. Yet you still are curious and want to explore. Do you risk losing the best relationship you ever had? Or do you not and maybe become resentful. Damn, living is hard.

Ain't it just? ;) That's really the problem with situations like Tenni proposed: oftentimes, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Again, I think it comes down to whether or not the desire you feel is genuinely something that's a part of you that you need to explore ("what I need to do to grow as a person") and not just something that seems like it could be fun but certainly isn't worth possibly sacrificing a relationship over. A genuine change in who you are (or an emergence of a latent tendency if you will) will leave you feeling resentful if not addressed, and that's bad news for the relationship. A passing fancy, however, will pass. :)

[Gay2Bi]

what ever happened to experimenting while you are single...... it seems that so many threads focus around the right to experiment and explore while in a relationship..... and totally ignore the fact that people are single too at times in their lives....

I agree that you should get your experimentation done while you're single before you commit to a relationship (or if you commit as the case may be), but Tenni's hypothetical situation was specifically about someone already in a same-sex relationship who experiences a previously non-existant (or latent) attraction to the opposite sex which then grows to the point where they are starting to question their same-sex relationship.

Ironically, had I been in a relationship when I was in my early 30's, I would've experienced this exact situation. Up until my early 30's I'd had no desire for women whatsoever (or at least none that I was aware of), but then the attraction started, and it grew pretty quickly from that point. Had I been in a relationship at the time, it would've been with a man, and I would've faced a difficult choice: tell him and risk him freaking out, or hide it and risk becoming resentful of a relationship that was no longer working for me. Fortunately, I wasn't in a relationship, so I never had to make that choice. And since I now identify myself as bi, potential partners know that the attraction is there so we can discuss the matter right up front.

But yes, ideally you'd figure out to whom you are attracted before you start looking for someone to settle down with (if settling down is your preference). And if you know you're bi before you meet someone, that should definitely be on the table right up front so there are no unpleasant surprises for your partner(s) down the road. :)

[Long Duck Dong]

nods I agree with what you are saying.......

you raise the aspect of latent feelings, and yes, I fully accept and agree.... some people never develop impulses and desires until they are committed or later in life, so the experiment while single is a option available to people that have the ability and desire to experiment and who are between partners and its not something everybody can do.....

the old adage of try before you buy applies there..... but its not a option for everybody......

but if you are in a committed relationship with a partner that is not open to sharing..... is risking it all for sex, really worth it..??? I know for me, it would not be... as love can and does outlast the ability to have sex.....

others will see it differently ..... they will support the * partner is selfish, your rights supersede your partners * stance...... and the monogamy is wrong stance......
and thats when I take the * oh, so your partner is selfish if they do not allow you to do as you see fit to do, but you are not selfish for ignoring your partners thoughts and feelings * stance......

I am a firm believer in the for better or worse aspect of the marriage vows.... you made a commitment to a partner.... and your partner made the same commitment to you...... its why I have openly stated to DD and in the forums that yes I am struggling with the idea of marriage as the idea of failing to honour my marriage vows is something that I have issues with....... if I can not stand by words of honour, then I should not say them .....

thats a personal stance.... I grew up with the stance of a mans word is his bond, and something you can bank on...... and thats something my partner needs be able to hang on to....
another poster mentioned a 75% divorce rate.... I would perfer to be part of the 25% that remain married, even if it means life long monogamy and denying aspects of myself ( tho I have permission from DD to go with other males )....

sex is not everything..... but many of us place it higher in value than love...... and that is a sign of the times and the society that we live in.....

[NEPHX]

You left part of my comment out and it was pretty important part:

"Your singular template of relationships doesn't fit everyone LDD" but you left off: "doesn't fit everyone LDD."

Where you got all the rest of the verbiage in your post from what I wrote and what it means is beyond me.

You poised a number of questions in your quoted response (well, they sound like questions but question marks are apparently out of fashion. :rolleyes: )

I'm not sure what you really mean. Your words don't seem to support any other form of relationship except monogamy.

"relationships and marriages are a two person deal"

Again, LDD. that's fine for YOU & your wife/partner. But you seem determined to insist its the only way for others and that once they are married, come heaven or hell, they are trapped exactly in that form of relationship (that appears to be your preference). If you've never been in a committed triad or some other construct, how can you lecture on other forms and how relationships and marriages are a ONLY a two-person deal. Everyone believed the Earth was flat once too. They repeated it enough time so everyone just accepted it. And that bisexuals didn't exist and that the universe revolved around Australia ........ oh, wait, I mean Earth.:bigrin:

That's my comment to you. "It" doesn't fit everyone. And, everyone has the option of either negotiating a new relationship format if possible (and important enough for them) or leaving that relationship if/when they feel its no longer right for them. So does their partner/wife/husband.

Now I suppose you can can take up and lecture on the issues of divorce, "until death do us part...", etc. But the fact is that divorce is a well established part of the social fabric in most every country. Through religion in for the debate of course if you must but that is also a personal choice.

When people get married, especially today, they realize that 50% or more of those marriages are likely to fail. They don't go into it thinking they will fail. The think they are different and their marriage will last forever. But in reality, they also know if they aren't happy that they can divorce. Some choose to change that marriage and its so much more common than people know or want to believe. And, some people stay married and shouldn't. While some people stay married, change something, the construct, whatever because they are so in love with each other that it actually intensifies their love and strength of their marriage.

So, I say once again: "Your singular template of relationships doesn't fit everyone LDD." M

Many people have told you the same thing in many threads only to have you lecture on your monogamous relationship. Do what works for you. If you ask a question, you might listen to people's answers.

You say "your desire for sex doesn't supersede your partners rights, feelings and emotions.... and if you know you can not commit to what you partner wants, and they will not give you what you want...... DON"T GET MARRIED"

Who's to say the intention wasn't the original plan? And, then it changed. Maybe their partner stops desiring sexual intimacy completely. They never saw that coming either!!

Native American Proverb: Don’t judge any man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins. .

And, I completely disagree with you on this point. A person's desire to grow or change for any reason supersedes their partners rights, feeling and emotions. Its very nice in theory to say I'll look out for my wife/husband/partner first but in the reality of the world, each of us is responsible for OUR OWN HAPPINESS. That translates to you have to look out for your happiness first. If you're lucky enough that your partner is looking out for you and you for him/her WOW....guess what, if an open relationship, triad, quad, poly family works for them, then it works for them... or off to the next relationship/life and dissolve the marriage.

If the partnership/relationship no longer works for a person, they probably should be honest and change. We grow together and sometimes, we grow separately and we also can grow apart. Life is funny like that.... (Ask Forrest). We get but one life to live and we're allow to change and without following "the rules of LDD".



Divorce rates in Australia
Divorce rate in Australia in around 46% in 2010. 1938 to 1991 went from around 5000 to over 60,000
Cohabitation before marriage has increased from about 18 per cent in 1975 to almost 60 per cent today.


my singular template of relationships ????? roflmao...... really ?????? so cos I am monogamous by nature I should stop supporting mutally agreed open relationships and marriage..... cos I am bi, I should stop supporting GLT people in relationships.....

monogamy is a commitment.... a decision and a choice...... and yes I have seen so many arguments that people are not monogamous.....
there is a choice that people can make and thats not to get into relationships and marriage, when monogamy is asked for...... but no... people do it then argue that their rights supersede their partners and they should not have to be monogamous....... and yes I agree.... but I also agree that their partner should have the right to say fuck you..... relations and marriage is over....

relationships and marriages are a two person deal..... not a one person deal..... your desire for sex doesn't supersede your partners rights, feelings and emotions.... and if you know you can not commit to what you partner wants, and they will not give you what you want...... DON"T GET MARRIED !!!!!!

[NEPHX]

.... I grew up with the stance of a mans word is his bond, and something you can bank on...... and thats something my partner needs be able to hang on to.... another poster mentioned a 75% divorce rate.... I would perfer to be part of the 25% that remain married, even if it means life long monogamy and denying aspects of myself ( tho I have permission from DD to go with other males )

And, whatcha going to do if DD decides one day that she prefers a nice strapping (fill in the blank) and bids you adieu? (I'd let her have the nice strapping (fill in the blank) if she'd stay (and maybe share occasionally) but that's me).

And, sometimes, try as we may, we don't get choices.

[sammie19]

I have lived for several years with an older lesbian woman I love very much. We have gone through so much together but increasingly miss the physical side of heterosexual sex. I fantasise ever more about it and have broached the subject with my partner. She is deeply hurt and we now have strains in the relationship which has made me regret ever having brought it up.

I have known her all my life, and we have been together since I was 14 as item and as couple. The last few years have been so happy but I cant help how my feelings affect me. I am not a lesbian and I am beginning to feel some resentment at being held in a closed lesbian relationship.

This and other strains are showing and while mostly things go along swimmingly, we have begun to do something we have never done - fight. I always pick the fight and it doesn't matter what its about, my resentent brings out the bitch in me.

We are still talking but I have noticed she is becoming more reluctant to do this and that makes me more bitchy than ever.

We remain close and very much in love. The relationship is very physical and the sex amazing at times, but for the first time ever, I have doubts about us.

[Long Duck Dong]

You left part of my comment out and it was pretty important part:

"Your singular template of relationships doesn't fit everyone LDD" but you left off: "doesn't fit everyone LDD."

Where you got all the rest of the verbiage in your post from what I wrote and what it means is beyond me.

You poised a number of questions in your quoted response (well, they sound like questions but question marks are apparently out of fashion. :rolleyes: )

I'm not sure what you really mean. Your words don't seem to support any other form of relationship except monogamy.

"relationships and marriages are a two person deal"

Again, LDD. that's fine for YOU & your wife/partner. But you seem determined to insist its the only way for others and that once they are married, come heaven or hell, they are trapped exactly in that form of relationship (that appears to be your preference). If you've never been in a committed triad or some other construct, how can you lecture on other forms and how relationships and marriages are a ONLY a two-person deal. Everyone believed the Earth was flat once too. They repeated it enough time so everyone just accepted it. And that bisexuals didn't exist and that the universe revolved around Australia ........ oh, wait, I mean Earth.:bigrin:

That's my comment to you. "It" doesn't fit everyone. And, everyone has the option of either negotiating a new relationship format if possible (and important enough for them) or leaving that relationship if/when they feel its no longer right for them. So does their partner/wife/husband.

Now I suppose you can can take up and lecture on the issues of divorce, "until death do us part...", etc. But the fact is that divorce is a well established part of the social fabric in most every country. Through religion in for the debate of course if you must but that is also a personal choice.

When people get married, especially today, they realize that 50% or more of those marriages are likely to fail. They don't go into it thinking they will fail. The think they are different and their marriage will last forever. But in reality, they also know if they aren't happy that they can divorce. Some choose to change that marriage and its so much more common than people know or want to believe. And, some people stay married and shouldn't. While some people stay married, change something, the construct, whatever because they are so in love with each other that it actually intensifies their love and strength of their marriage.

So, I say once again: "Your singular template of relationships doesn't fit everyone LDD." M

Many people have told you the same thing in many threads only to have you lecture on your monogamous relationship. Do what works for you. If you ask a question, you might listen to people's answers.

You say "your desire for sex doesn't supersede your partners rights, feelings and emotions.... and if you know you can not commit to what you partner wants, and they will not give you what you want...... DON"T GET MARRIED"

Who's to say the intention wasn't the original plan? And, then it changed. Maybe their partner stops desiring sexual intimacy completely. They never saw that coming either!!

Native American Proverb: Don’t judge any man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins. .

And, I completely disagree with you on this point. A person's desire to grow or change for any reason supersedes their partners rights, feeling and emotions. Its very nice in theory to say I'll look out for my wife/husband/partner first but in the reality of the world, each of us is responsible for OUR OWN HAPPINESS. That translates to you have to look out for your happiness first. If you're lucky enough that your partner is looking out for you and you for him/her WOW....guess what, if an open relationship, triad, quad, poly family works for them, then it works for them... or off to the next relationship/life and dissolve the marriage.

If the partnership/relationship no longer works for a person, they probably should be honest and change. We grow together and sometimes, we grow separately and we also can grow apart. Life is funny like that.... (Ask Forrest). We get but one life to live and we're allow to change and without following "the rules of LDD".

read post 15 where I refered to the * my singular template of relationships *....and you will see that I was addressing the reference to the template..... but I am sure you are going share with us all, the other templates of relationships that I am some how not seeing....

show me where I say my style of life is for everybody cos I can pull up a number of threads where I say that my lifestyle is less than average and most people would struggle with it.........

and sure you can have the point of view that you are responsible for your happiness..... but that doesn't give you the right to destroy your partners happiness.....and that applies to both partners

btw, the remark about marriage is a two person deal is based around the fact that marriage is between two people.... unless you are into poly marriages like some religions..... but legally only two people can marry......

sure marriages fail...... and a lot of it has to do with changes in people that can not be reconciled, but a good number of people want to have their marriage and their freedom and will do it at the expense of their partners...... danreid is a good example of doing that and the result......
and personally people can do that..... its not my life, nor my partners life that they are fucking over, its their lives.........

as for my stance on monogamy, I am the first person to state that I am not able to cope with a open relationship / dual lovers, casual hook ups..... etc..... even tho I am bisexual......
DD can give me all the permission in the world, but I will fight any chance to exercise it as it causes far more problems for me than it solves...... so I avoid it...... that is the right approach for me.... it works for me........ others will handle it the way they want to

if you read thru the few 100 threads of mine you see a pattern of me supporting types of marriages and relationships that are contradictory to my own preference in my life and relationships

but you will also see me support honesty and openness with partners.... its called respect..... and its got nothing to do with sexuality.... if you can not trust your partner, you are in trouble and so is the relationship......
that applies to any situation, IE gambling, debt, health, drinking etc etc etc.....

but what I tend to notice is people in the site that are very anti monogamy and seeking the end of it..... while they are busy being single, and having casual partners.... they want to take the right to be monogamous from others while the are living a lifestyle where monogamy is not restricting them in any way.......

now as for walking in a mans mocassins.... I spent 7 years with a partner that treated me like shit, had a number of affairs. lied to me incessantly etc.... so I have first hand experience on what it can be like to be a monogamous person that has a partner that felt their rights to happiness superseded the feelings of the other partner........
so yes I have walked in the shoes of the monogamous person, while have a partner that acted in the manner of SOME bisexuals....... so there is no way in hell that I would do that to a person I love and care about.......

so again..... in a relationship the rights of your partner are equal to your own.... if both partners agree to a open relationship, good on them.......
but if not.... then your rights do not supersede your partners..... you have the right to choose to go outside of the relationship and your partner has the right to say no...... thats when a compromise can be reached or not..... and thats when a relationship / marriage can end......

so you can apply your stance of your happiness before your partners thoughts and feelings on the matter...... but I have to ask, if your happiness is paramount and supersedes your partners feelings and desires.... why get married if you are not gonna respect them and their feelings in the same way you want your feelings respected.....

lastly.... I can not help but notice that its 95% males in this forum that are supporters of a number of issues.....

the right to ignore your partners stance when it comes to sex.....

the desire to end monogamy for everybody when in most cases its not affecting the person anyway....

that bisexuality is constantly used as a excuse for actions that are not a aspect of bisexuality at all..... cos every body else has the same ability and they are not bisexual

and that they should be allowed to change and grow and if that treads on their partners toes, their partner should just accept it and shut up.......


now as for DD wanting a strapping great whatever...... as DD knows, I can not and will not stop her..... if she chooses to leave me I can not stop her and nor will I.....

a old saying, if you so love something... set it free, ... if it returns to you,... it loves you in return..... if it doesn't.... it never did......

if DD leaves me, its with my blessing..... cos I practise what I preach...... and thats why DD knows that I will commit to her in a relationship and be monogamous.... cos I am a man of my word and my word is my bond......

[DuckiesDarling]

And, whatcha going to do if DD decides one day that she prefers a nice strapping (fill in the blank) and bids you adieu? (I'd let her have the nice strapping (fill in the blank) if she'd stay (and maybe share occasionally) but that's me).

And, sometimes, try as we may, we don't get choices.

Why would I want a strapping whatever when I have what I want? I proposed to him, not the other way around. I made the choice to get on a plane and fly 9000 miles to see if it was real and found to my delight it was. I now struggle with red tape and saving money to be able to move back there and take my place as his partner and build our life together. We know we have things to work out when I get there but that's part of being in a committed relationship. He is more comfortable with monogamy and I am ecstatic about that because I have been cheated on in the past. We have openly said time and again that monogamy is not for everyone but for us it is our choice. We don't shove it down people's throats and say you must be monogamous. We say to each their own as long as you have an informed partner.

Btw exactly what is the strapping whatever? I'm straight, he's bi. It ain't changing so unless George Clooney decides he wants to get married I'm not leaving my babe.

[Long Duck Dong]

now I will say this clearly..... for the mentally impaired people like nephx

respect for your partner is like respect for yourself...... you want to be respected, considered and consulted in your relationships and marriage..... in the same way that you want society to consider and respect you as a person......

it DOESN'T make a difference if you are single, in a relationship in a marriage etc.... you seek to be respected by others..... even when they disagree with your own views....... it doesn't make a difference if you are hetero, gay, les, bi, asexual, pansexual etc.... it doesn't make a difference if you are monogamous, open of poly minded...... you want to be respected and have your views respected as a person and a partner.......

BUT it doesn't mean that cos you change as a person, that your partner suddenly no longer needs to be respected or considered....... you made a commitment to them, and its changed, they need to know its changed in the same way you would like to know when your partner has changed.......

the right to stay in a relationship or marriage based around those changes, apply to each person in the relationship equally........

I endorse communication between partners about changes that affect the relationship and the other partner/s... it doesn't always work and yes break ups and divorces happen.......

BUT if you can not show respect for your partner/s that are supposed to be the loves of your lives and the people you care deeply about..... then they deserve the right to find somebody that will....... in the same way you also have that right.......

if anybody is unclear on that..... think of it this way.... when was the last time you complained about people not respecting you..... and then apply that to your partner.... cos its the same fucking thing....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NEPHX]

It was strictly a hypothetical discussion DD.:)

Strapping whatever can be George if you'd like....

I only read into the post at hand and a few other recent one... just seemed pretty focused on monogamy to me.



Why would I want a strapping whatever when I have what I want? I proposed to him, not the other way around. I made the choice to get on a plane and fly 9000 miles to see if it was real and found to my delight it was. I now struggle with red tape and saving money to be able to move back there and take my place as his partner and build our life together. We know we have things to work out when I get there but that's part of being in a committed relationship. He is more comfortable with monogamy and I am ecstatic about that because I have been cheated on in the past. We have openly said time and again that monogamy is not for everyone but for us it is our choice. We don't shove it down people's throats and say you must be monogamous. We say to each their own as long as you have an informed partner.

Btw exactly what is the strapping whatever? I'm straight, he's bi. It ain't changing so unless George Clooney decides he wants to get married I'm not leaving my babe.

[NEPHX]

now I will say this clearly..... for the mentally impaired people like nephx


Be nice LDD...

[Long Duck Dong]

I am nice..... and very tolerant....... 20 years of listening to every bs excuse under the sun as to why its ok for males to shit on their partners, has made me very tolerant.....

and no thats not a generalisation... about 90% of all the cases that I dealt with when I was doing counselling / therapy work, that involved relationship issues.... had to do with males cheating on their partners.... making excuses for their actions and begging me to save their marriages so that they didn't lose the house and have to pay child support for their kids and so they would continue to have the one they loved, by their side......

if they really loved their partners, they would have risked it all by talking with them about the changes and issues..... not taking the easy way out.... then paying the huge price for it..... cos there was a number of times that they would have got permission to take lovers..... and saved their marriage......

there are times that the risk is worth taking...... and a lot cheaper..... and thats why I suggest people do it cos that way at least they considered their partners feelings and it worked.....

other times it didn't work.... but they had a more stable ground for ending the relationship and marriage.... and it never cost them everything....

[swmnkdinthervr]

I think that it is a bit more complicated. What if the relationship you are in is fantastic. Your partner is your best friend, the best-est lover, and potential spouse. Yet you still are curious and want to explore. Do you risk losing the best relationship you ever had? Or do you not and maybe become resentful. Damn, living is hard.

While several continue to point out that a good relationship shouldn't be threatened or put under risk...frankly I think they are missing the point!

A good relationship with emotionally fit and open minded people would be supportive of their partners need to explore/grow, they might even offer to explore with them if they are able. They certainly wouldn't offer threats or ultimatums intended to control the others actions!!! How can you share love completely when you have fear, guilt or resentment forced on you by the person that allegedly loves you?

You absolutely must remain true to yourself, any feelings/curiosities you have can't be ignored for the benefit of someone else! Your needs are ALWAYS paramount even in a committed relationship, anything less is codependent behavior at best!!!

If indeed your exploring brings a close to a relationship I have to submit that it wasn't all that good or secure to begin with. Remaining in a one sided relationship so you can be in that 25% will eventually hurt you both and maybe others!!! More of the responses pointing out the above threat to a relationship come from a fear of that loss...not an understanding of how to grow together.

JMHO

[NEPHX]

I am nice..... and very tolerant....... 20 years of listening to every bs excuse under the sun as to why its ok for males to shit on their partners, has made me very tolerant.....

Calling me mentally impaired .... help me out here... is that the nice part or the tolerant part? I'm certainly not mentally impaired.

"if they really loved their partners, they would have risked it all by talking with them about the changes and issues.."

In case you don't recognize it... this last statement above (yours) is a judgment. How do you know if they really loved or didn't love their partners? Maybe they just did dumb stuff or outgrew their relationship. As a therapist, you're NOT suppose to judge your patients.

You're putting your (moral) judgments on other people. That's not tolerant. Assuming everyone is going to sh*t on their partner is generalizing at best.

"They" aren't asking you to save them now.

Its my experience that mental health professional are not supposed to "give" advise. They are supposed to help the patient talk about their own issues, challenges and come to their own decisions and action plans. Its a real no no to give advise around these parts.

[bisexual Bill]

While several continue to point out that a good relationship shouldn't be threatened or put under risk...frankly I think they are missing the point!

A good relationship with emotionally fit and open minded people would be supportive of their partners need to explore/grow, they might even offer to explore with them if they are able. They certainly wouldn't offer threats or ultimatums intended to control the others actions!!! How can you share love completely when you have fear, guilt or resentment forced on you by the person that allegedly loves you?

You absolutely must remain true to yourself, any feelings/curiosities you have can't be ignored for the benefit of someone else! Your needs are ALWAYS paramount even in a committed relationship, anything less is codependent behavior at best!!!

If indeed your exploring brings a close to a relationship I have to submit that it wasn't all that good or secure to begin with. Remaining in a one sided relationship so you can be in that 25% will eventually hurt you both and maybe others!!! More of the responses pointing out the above threat to a relationship come from a fear of that loss...not an understanding of how to grow together.

JMHO

Not everyone wants an open relationship. Or wants to be forced into one by a partner who thinks that it is somehow their right to do this to a partner or someone who they're in a relationship with.

I've seen lots of posts by people here where they want to force a spouse or whoever they're in a relationship with into an open relationship when the other person does not want this at all.

It's not fear, guilt, or co-dependency at play here. It's having respect for a partner who you're in a monogamous relationship with and having a healthy relationship and communication with your partner, not forcing them to allow you to sleep around with other people just because you want this while they do not.

[Long Duck Dong]

ok hephx, you are not mentally impaired..... you are understanding impaired....

for a start.... morals are like morons..... we are surrounded by them but most of them we ignore......

assuming that everybody are gonna shit on their partners??? no, many people are have respect for their partners..... and thats why a lot of open relationships work and thats why a lot of relationships that change from closed to open relationships, work..... its called communication, consideration and understanding....

strangely enuf, thats what I endorse... COMMUNICATION between partners... compromise, etc .... you know the stuff I am talking about.... yakkity yakkity yak..... bla bla bla... nag nag nag......

and no people are no longer asking me to save them as I am retired..... sighs.... have been for a couple of years..... got sick of the bs excuses people use so they can lie and cheat and justify their actions......

and I was a counsellor and therapist... not a mental health professional.... big difference...... one listens to people and offers suggestions advice and guidance.... the other deals with people that have issues that have more to do with their minds and brains.......
hence I can handle being in the forum.... a mental health professional would wonder what madhouse the forum is located in.....:tong::tong::tong:

[swmnkdinthervr]

Not everyone wants an open relationship. Or wants to be forced into one by a partner who thinks that it is somehow their right to do this to a partner or someone who they're in a relationship with.

I've seen lots of posts by people here where they want to force a spouse or whoever they're in a relationship with into an open relationship when the other person does not want this at all.

It's not fear, guilt, or co-dependency at play here. It's having respect for a partner who you're in a monogamous relationship with and having a healthy relationship and communication with your partner, not forcing them to allow you to sleep around with other people just because you want this while they do not.

Nobody said anything about forcing anyone to do anything, where is a lack of respect mentioned or hinted at in what I wrote??? No coercion is required in an emotionally healthy relationship! Being open to growth no matter the direction is what helps keeps a relationship young and alive, communication is the key that allows it all to happen!

Monogamy is a label used by the church to keep all it's subjects in a neat little row. (are we bi guys accepted by the church now?) Don't we demand the rest of the world be "open minded" about our choice of the gender of our sexual partner? When did that demand become monogamy???

We can only be faithful to our spouse in the aspect of trust even in a heterosexual relationship, fully open communication without lies/deceit is all we can ask/demand of our partner. Sex is sex and love is love, they are exclusive of each other and have nothing to do with faithfulness...or of a breaking of trust, only deceit or lying can do that!!! Hiding ones interest in the opposite sex from your partner is tantamount to lying/deceit!!!

[swmnkdinthervr]

Not everyone wants an open relationship. Or wants to be forced into one by a partner who thinks that it is somehow their right to do this to a partner or someone who they're in a relationship with.

I've seen lots of posts by people here where they want to force a spouse or whoever they're in a relationship with into an open relationship when the other person does not want this at all.

It's not fear, guilt, or co-dependency at play here. It's having respect for a partner who you're in a monogamous relationship with and having a healthy relationship and communication with your partner, not forcing them to allow you to sleep around with other people just because you want this while they do not.

Nobody said anything about forcing anyone to do anything, where is a lack of respect mentioned or hinted at in what I wrote??? No coercion is required in an emotionally healthy relationship! Being open to growth no matter the direction is what helps keeps a relationship young and alive, communication is the key that allows it all to happen! Should we all then have a "closed relationship" (reads a closed mind)..."open relation" ship is a label...better we all have an open mind!!!

Monogamy is another label used by the church to keep all it's subjects in a neat little row. (are we bi guys accepted by the church now?) Don't we demand the rest of the world be "open minded" about our choice of the gender of our sexual partner? When did that demand become monogamy???

We can only be faithful to our spouse in the aspect of trust even in a heterosexual relationship, fully open communication without lies/deceit is all we can ask/demand of our partner. Sex is sex and love is love, they are exclusive of each other and have nothing to do with faithfulness...or of a breaking of trust, only deceit or lying can do that!!! Hiding ones interest in the opposite sex from your partner is tantamount to lying/deceit!!!

I can only hope my partner continues to be as accepting of me as I am of her. When I explained to my wife about my bisexuality she was neither repulsed or threatened. We communicate fully and she asked me to explain it to her carefully and completely. I did so taking my time to answer everything as truthfully/openly as I could.

Was she forced/coerced into accepting me for who I am...did our marriage collapse because I had a growing curiosity...NO to all the above!!! What did happen was an incredible awakening and growth between us, we obviously were emotionally capable of accepting each others needs and supporting the other in them! We were not hindered by some religious or moral fear, guilt or resentment.

[tenni]

Thanks for your comments.
Cat
The person is not me but a real person. I've intentionally left the gender out.

Others
The delimma is real. The person has never felt same sex attraction until recently. Sammie and Gay2Bi have the closest experience to this issue but not exactly the same situation. I guess no one is on this site has experienced this delimma?

The person does love their partner. Remember that it is legal in Canada for same sex marriage and their partner wants to get married but they are not married. They've been in a relationship for about five years. The person is uncertain since they have been developing a curiousity and now attraction to someone specific of the opposite sex. They don't feel love for the opposite sex person but certainly recognize their love of their partner. The person wants to present the delimma to their partner and has full intention of doing so but is very fearful about what the reaction will be. As I wrote, the person feels that they could lose on both counts of losing their partner and not liking sex with the opposite gender. They just don't know which way to turn. What if they are wrong and won't be comfortable with opposite sex intercourse? There is a real possibility that their partner will not accept their heterosexual desires or understand the feelings. Right now, the curiousity is increasing and especially since their is now an opposite sex attraction to specific opposite sex person.

Gay2Bi
You mention that this could have been you a few years back but you were not in a relationship.

"the desire you feel is genuinely something that's a part of you that you need to explore"
The person is most worried about whether this is a phase or genuine. They are surprised that this has happened to them. They do feel that it is a lose /lose situation no matter which way they decide.

How long of a process did you go through before you realized that you were really a bisexual and that this was not a phase? This apparently has been going on inside the person for more than six months.

[darkeyes]

Sit down boy!!! How do u spell dilemma?? :eek: Now say it after me.. d.. i...l... e...m...m...a. Now see that pointie hat with the capital D on it.. put it on your bonce and sit in the corner on that stool and face the wall...

S'ok, Tenni darlin'... jus havin lil giggle.. kissie..

[tenni]

Sit down boy!!! How do u spell dilemma?? :eek: Now say it after me.. d.. i...l... e...m...m...a. Now see that pointie hat with the capital D on it.. put it on your bonce and sit in the corner on that stool and face the wall...

S'ok, Tenni darlin'... jus havin lil giggle.. kissie..

caught me did you?...I can not say aluminium either...lol There are just some things that we lesser mortals are not worthy of or able to do...;)

Why is it red lining my spelling of aluminium? spelt wrong too....or maybe not merican spelling. Sigh...life can be rough sometimes...bisexual and on top using a mixture of British and merican spelling...French bilingual expectations on top of that too...that's three kinds of bi.....lol

[NotLostJustWandering]

caught me did you?...I can not say aluminium either...lol There are just some things that we lesser mortals are not worthy of or able to do...;)

Why is it red lining my spelling of aluminium? spelt wrong too....or maybe not merican spelling. Sigh...life can be rough sometimes...bisexual and on top using a mixture of British and merican spelling...French bilingual expectations on top of that too...that's three kinds of bi.....lol

Reminded of Ali G's interview of Noam Chomsky where he feigned offense at the word "bilingual."

[NotLostJustWandering]

Thanks for explaining the actual situation, Tenni. I was about to ask.

The way you phrased the choices it sounded like the fiance's refusal to accept his partner's bisexuality was a given. If that's not known, than I'd chime in with the majority opinion here that he should come clean and give the hetero experience a shot. Much better to know than always wonder. But yes, we shouldn't make light of the risk and difficulty in making this decision.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Ooooooooooooooo Fran..I love it when you get all forceful and demanding like that! (Pant pant drool drool) lol :tongue:
I'm a tutor and "I" didnt even catch it! lol. He just got his E and I backwards..lol
Just pickin on ya Tenni Dumplin.
Cat

[slipnslide]

I thought this was going to be a thread about a problematic sandwich.

[Gay2Bi]

Gay2Bi
You mention that this could have been you a few years back but you were not in a relationship.

"the desire you feel is genuinely something that's a part of you that you need to explore"
The person is most worried about whether this is a phase or genuine. They are surprised that this has happened to them. They do feel that it is a lose /lose situation no matter which way they decide.

How long of a process did you go through before you realized that you were really a bisexual and that this was not a phase? This apparently has been going on inside the person for more than six months.

Umm, well, it's been about 8 years now, and I'm still not quite sure that it's not a phase. ;)

For me, the attraction seems to wax and wane - sometimes there's none, and then it'll be all I can think about. (I've read some of the threads about how other bisexuals experience this pendulum effect between same-sex and opposite-sex attraction, so I'm guessing that's normal.) Only my attraction to women changes; I'm never not attracted to men. ;) Even when the feelings are at their peak, my attraction to women is different from my attraction to men: With men, it's physical, emotional, romantic; with women it's more about the act of sex - I'm not even particularly attracted to women's bodies. So I'm still confused by all of it, but I guess I've acknowledged that I occasionally think about sex with a woman for maybe 4 or 5 years now, which means it took me about 3 years or so to accept that it wasn't just a fluke.

I feel that this person should follow through with his/her plans to discuss this with his/her partner. I also feel that the person needs to be sensitive to the needs and fears of his/her partner - it's fairly scary when someone you think you know is changing, so the partner is going to need a lot of reassurance. Time for a personal story:

I was in a relationship a number of years before my attraction emerged where my boyfriend confessed to being attracted to a particular woman. (Specifically, it was a woman seated nearby while we were at a restaurant as opposed to someone that he knew.) I wish I could say that I was the epitome of understanding , but honestly, I panicked. I thought that he was telling me this because he was "turning straight" and going to leave me for a girl. (Yes, it's irrational, but fear often is.) Even after he reassurred me that that would never happen, I still got nervous any time he would glance at a girl from that point on, and that eventually led to the break up. (Well, him dumping me for another guy was the direct cause of the break up, but I think that my acting suspicious probably drove him to that.) The big irony is that a few years later, I was the one developing the attraction to women. Had I not panicked, things could've ended up quite differently for everyone. I like to think that now I would be far more supportive of a partner who wanted to explore his sexuality because I have the perspective of being in that same position.

I'm assuming from the discussion that they are in a closed relationship with a presumption of sexual exclusivity. If the partner delivers an ultimatum - don't explore or you'll lose me - that's going to force your acquaintance into an either/or choice: either s/he will choose the relationship and hope the feelings go away (and if they don't, that can lead to resentment or worse), or s/he will end the relationship and risk discovering that opposite-sex sex doesn't really work for him/her (thus sacrificing a stable relationship for a disappointing experiment). Neither one of those outcomes is good. I can only hope that when s/he discusses the matter with his/her partner, the two will be able to work things out.

[tenni]

[QUOTE=Gay2Bi;185918]Umm, well, it's been about 8 years now, and I'm still not quite sure that it's not a phase. ;)

Thanks Gay2bi
Your last paragraph does sum up the dilemma that s/he is experiencing. S/he fears that it is not a situation that is going to turn out well. The length of time that you have been experiencing this may bother her/him but it is good for the person to know. Your second to last paragraph about how you reacted may help the person. I will pass on your text to s/he.

[Gay2Bi]

Thanks Gay2bi
Your last paragraph does sum up the dilemma that s/he is experiencing. S/he fears that it is not a situation that is going to turn out well. The length of time that you have been experiencing this may bother her/him but it is good for the person to know. Your second to last paragraph about how you reacted may help the person. I will pass on your text to s/he.

Well, I hope it helps out. It's a very awkward situation to be in when you start having inexplicable feelings that you never knew before. It's even worse if you're already in a relationship when it happens. Like I said, I've been on the receiving end of that kind of a revelation, and I know that it's very easy to let your emotions run away with you.

Just let your acquaintance know that his/her partner might panic (like I did) when the subject is broached and that s/he should be as reassuring as possible and reaffirm the relationship. At the same time, s/he should be prepared - the panic might lead to an ultimatum, so s/he should try not to overreact to that. If there is an ultimatum, I would say that since s/he truly loves his/her partner, s/he should accept the ultimatum and stick with the relationship for the time being. Once the panic subsides, s/he can gently reintroduce the subject - unless the partner has indicated that s/he does not want to discuss it at all, at which point your acquaintance will have to reevaluate the relationship in light of his/her feelings. But who knows? - maybe the partner will be the one to make the first move after the panic passes.

I kinda hate to bring this up, but another thing s/he should be prepared for is that the partner might decide to end the relationship. As I said, I wasn't exactly the most receptive person when my boyfriend confessed his opposite-sex attraction (even though he did it in a non-threatening manner), and I did become a bit (okay, a lot) paranoid after that (even though he gave me no reason to worry). Although in my case I wasn't the one to end the relationship (but my suspicious behavior contributed to that), I could easily see how the partner could overreact, especially if there have been declarations of love and the partner is expressing an interest in marriage. That doesn't necessarily mean that the relationship is over for good - your acquaintance might just have to wait a bit for the panic to cool down before trying to reconnect with the partner.

If there is a temporary break up, I would strongly advise not experimenting during that period, because the first thing the partner will ask when your acquaintance tries to reconnect will be "So, did you sleep with him/her while we were apart?" That could lead to a permanent break up if your acquaintance says "yes."