"Bisexual Men Do Exist" - The NY Times Finally Picks Up The Follow Up "Research"

[djones]

The NY Times Finally Picked Up The Follow Up Research In To Bisexual Men.

The original study was highly flawed, but the New York Times printed it and featured it as though it were the gospel truth (that made Dan Savage happy).

The follow up research, though still only scratching the surface of Bisexuality, backed up what any Bi man knew already, we are real. The New York Times appeared not to be interested in countering their earlier position, but today they have published a story on that research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/health/23bisexual.html?_r=1&hp

I didn't need the Times to validate me, but it helps in opening people's eyes.

[hgf33]

Just as I was starting to lose faith, I begin noticing more and more good news for us!

I'm very passionate about human rights, so I follow a lot of LGBT stuff on Facebook and Twitter, and I have a couple of other bi social sites. I've noticed quite a bit of progress lately!

One of the things I found on Twitter is a website called The Rainbow Couch. It's based in the UK, so that's my only complaint (I wish they had a US affiliate.) Anyway, I started following this site, and I'm so glad I found it! The website itself seems to focus mainly on therapy, help, and advice for those having a hard time living with their sexuality, but the links on Twitter and Facebook are incredible!

It's an LGBT site, yet they focus on bisexuality CONSISTENTLY! The therapist is Ronete Cohen, from Bi Social Network. They've just recently nominated people for what they call "Homo Heroes", and they actually showed excitement about the fact that many of these nominees are bisexual! I've read some of the articles they've shared, and it looks as though we bisexuals are finally on the road to getting some visibility and understanding!

Anyway, just thought I'd share. I find all the good news to be extremely refreshing. It makes me a lot more hopeful for the future! :flag4:

[tenni]

Thanks for posting this djones.

Thanks for the "Rainbow Couch" reference hgf. I've checked the twitter page and it does look interesting. I must admit that my first reaction to a "Homo Heroes" category sees this as possibly bi erasure though. I know many bisexual men who reject the term homo or being called gay...kinda defeats the article stating that there really are bisexuals when they are expected to "fit" a monosexual award?

[softfruit]

I'm glad the NYT piece is there, not just because it is a good counter to the old "gay straight or lying" but also because it's a good lulzworthy headline on their part.

I think we're stuck with the alliterative name for the Homo Heroes ( lgf.org.uk/hero ) - after all, they are run by an organisation which doesn't have the "B" in its name - but the description of the awards says they are open to L, G and B nominees, so I quite like the idea of a strong "B" showing.

But then, I would 8) "vote early, vote often" and all that! :bipride:

[Pasadenacpl2]

Thanks for posting this djones.

Thanks for the "Rainbow Couch" reference hgf. I've checked the twitter page and it does look interesting. I must admit that my first reaction to a "Homo Heroes" category sees this as possibly bi erasure though. I know many bisexual men who reject the term homo or being called gay...kinda defeats the article stating that there really are bisexuals when they are expected to "fit" a monosexual award?

Or...they could..you know...just intend to use homo as a cute form of alliteration.

Geesus...is EVERYTHING that doesn't use terms you approve of have to be a conspiracy to erase us? Tin foil hats and grassy knolls abound in your world.

Pasa

[hgf33]

You're welcome! It was refreshing to me, so I thought I'd share. I know we as a whole community, could use a little good news of progress. The Homo Heroes title is simply intended to be catchy. The tweets I saw, where they post a link to the nominees, were in a positive, excited tone, specifically because there were so many bisexuals nominated. That's what truly matters! Plus, calling it "Homo" (referring to LGBT, not merely homosexuals) but including so many bisexuals will (possibly) help gays realize we do exist and we are the B that belongs in the LGBT community because, well, we're not straight!

I've noticed while following them thay they show great enthusiasm when mentioning bi issues. And softfruit, I didn't notice the "lgt" link, but maybe LGBT was already taken. Wouldn't surprise me. Ronete Cohen, the therapist for this site, is a psychologist and columnist for Bi Social Network. I'm not sure if she herself is bisexual, but it would make sense if she was.

Regardless of how you want to look at the tiny details of names and titles, what matters is the content, and the content is very positive in terms of bi visibility and inclusion.

[softfruit]

LGF not LGT - it's cos the organisation is called the Lesbian & Gay Foundation

[maxtor]

glad they are finally realizing that we are out here. actually i didnt know what bi was when i was young but after my first encounter, had a bit to drink and the inibitions were lowered, and i thought that there was actually something wrong with me that i liked sex with men and playing with a cock and sucking and taking a cock all the way up. felt so good after i relaxed and from then on it was great. i finally learned that i was not alone in my feelings and there was a lot more people that were like myself and we were considered bi. i still have that craving although i dont have a regular partner since i have moved and dont know that many people in the area but have my feelers out to find a casual sex partner. girlfriend dont know i am bi yet but think she suspects since she does me with a strapon and i enjoy that.

[hgf33]

LGF not LGT - it's cos the organisation is called the Lesbian & Gay Foundation

Oops, my mistake! It was pretty late, lol! Well it fits my reasoning even better, really. Either it wasn't available or they were simply covering the bases with blanket terms. Who knows. I just know I'm impressed. Yesterday, every tweet I saw had to do with bisexuality. It's good to know someone is "fighting" for us (so to speak)! :)

[drugstore cowboy]

Thanks for posting this djones.

Thanks for the "Rainbow Couch" reference hgf. I've checked the twitter page and it does look interesting. I must admit that my first reaction to a "Homo Heroes" category sees this as possibly bi erasure though. I know many bisexual men who reject the term homo or being called gay...kinda defeats the article stating that there really are bisexuals when they are expected to "fit" a monosexual award?


Or...they could..you know...just intend to use homo as a cute form of alliteration.

Geesus...is EVERYTHING that doesn't use terms you approve of have to be a conspiracy to erase us? Tin foil hats and grassy knolls abound in your world.

Tenni, softfruit, and others are correct.

This is biphobia and bisexual erasure on the part of "Homo Heros" and the Lesbian & Gay Foundation organization.

Anytime a supposedly GLBT organization reverts to monosexuality or uses only the terms gay/lesbian or gay/straight this is bisexual erasure and biphobia.

[djones]

Tenni, softfruit, and others are correct.

This is biphobia and bisexual erasure on the part of "Homo Heros" and the Lesbian & Gay Foundation organization.

Anytime a supposedly GLBT organization reverts to monosexuality or uses only the terms gay/lesbian or gay/straight this is bisexual erasure and biphobia.

I'll go one further - anytime the GL organizations use the letter B or the term Bi, they want something from us !

[hgf33]

Tenni, softfruit, and others are correct.

This is biphobia and bisexual erasure on the part of "Homo Heros" and the Lesbian & Gay Foundation organization.

Anytime a supposedly GLBT organization reverts to monosexuality or uses only the terms gay/lesbian or gay/straight this is bisexual erasure and biphobia.

Did you not read anything I wrote? Did you not check out the Twitter or Facebook pages, or the website? Did you miss the part where I said the therapist works with a bisexual social networking site and with other organizations to promote visibility? The majority of the things posted are about bisexuality, and enthusiastically boost visibility. The therapist is also bisexual, herself.

Yet, no matter how much this helps us, you're choosing to be stuck on a letter detail. I sure hope you NEVER categorize anything to keep it short and to the point, and to make things quicker and easier to access. I hope you never refer to your household items as merely furniture, without listing each one as an individual piece. When you go produce shopping, you better not call it that. If you don't list every single fruit and vegetable, then you are using a blanket term, and that is *name forgotten vegetable here* erasure.

Ridiculous, isn't it?!

Pay attention to the deeper, more important things, rather than look for something to make a conspiracy out of. If we work from the inside out, meaning deal with the real issues at hand, then those small details will eventually follow. I hate clichès, but, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth", fits pretty well.

[drugstore cowboy]

Did you not read anything I wrote? Did you not check out the Twitter or Facebook pages, or the website? Did you miss the part where I said the therapist works with a bisexual social networking site and with other organizations to promote visibility? The majority of the things posted are about bisexuality, and enthusiastically boost visibility. The therapist is also bisexual, herself.

Yet, no matter how much this helps us, you're choosing to be stuck on a letter detail. I sure hope you NEVER categorize anything to keep it short and to the point, and to make things quicker and easier to access. I hope you never refer to your household items as merely furniture, without listing each one as an individual piece. When you go produce shopping, you better not call it that. If you don't list every single fruit and vegetable, then you are using a blanket term, and that is *name forgotten vegetable here* erasure.

Ridiculous, isn't it?!

Pay attention to the deeper, more important things, rather than look for something to make a conspiracy out of. If we work from the inside out, meaning deal with the real issues at hand, then those small details will eventually follow. I hate clichès, but, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth", fits pretty well.

Yes I did read your rambling posts, what was the point of them?

You're a total closet case so this invalidates all of your claims.

It's nice that that one "gay and lesbian" site deals with bisexuality as well but there are tons of "GLBT" marketed sites, organizations, and political and discussion groups that focus only on gay men, lesbians, and Trans people only and they do not focus on bisexuals or bisexuality at all despite being marketed as "glBt".

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has been to either an event or site that was billed as "GLBT" and found out that it focused only on gay men and lesbians.

I never said there was a conspiracy. I have however written about my own personal experiences with biphobia and bisexual erasure.

You and several other rather closeted people on this site love to claim that when bisexuals like myself, djones, IanBorthwick, softfruit, and Atiq (not lost just wandering) who have been out for years or decades in my case write about our personal experiences with biphobia and bisexual erasure that it's somehow an unfounded "conspiracy". :rolleyes:

[hgf33]

Yes I did read your rambling posts, what was the point of them?

You're a total closet case so this invalidates all of your claims.

It's nice that that one "gay and lesbian" site deals with bisexuality as well but there are tons of "GLBT" marketed sites, organizations, and political and discussion groups that focus only on gay men, lesbians, and Trans people only and they do not focus on bisexuals or bisexuality at all despite being marketed as "glBt".

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has been to either an event or site that was billed as "GLBT" and found out that it focused only on gay men and lesbians.

I never said there was a conspiracy. I have however written about my own personal experiences with biphobia and bisexual erasure.

You and several other rather closeted people on this site love to claim that when bisexuals like myself, djones, IanBorthwick, softfruit, and Atiq (not lost just wandering) who have been out for years or decades in my case write about our personal experiences with biphobia and bisexual erasure that it's somehow an unfounded "conspiracy". :rolleyes:

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and I never said the whole issue is an unfounded conspiracy, because I know I'd be wrong. I know it's a real problem. Why else would I be sharing positive information regarding progress?! What I'm saying is, don't nit-pick. Every little detail isn't ALWAYS aimed at bi erasure like you seem to think. If you knew anything about me and what I stand for, you could see from your high horse that all I aim for is acceptance and rights. Judgement of our own isn't going to get us anywhere either. Yeah, so you're older and you've had different experiences in the past. Time isn't sitting still.

I don't know why I waste my time. You're so much better than anyone else because you've been out longer. *Groan*. If being 100% out is going to make me treat my fellow bisexuals the way you do, I'm climbing to the back of the closet and never coming out! I choose to see every side to an argument and don't directly insult anyone (unless they push me, and even then I don't launch into personal attacks to solve anything) but I guess we can't all be mature adults. What you say is gold and who gives a flying fuck what anyone else thinks. Funny, I'm not the only person on this site who's made reference to the fact that you simply worship your own opinions and don't consider others.

It's very clear to me now, why you've experienced so much bi-hatred, and it has nothing to do with sexuality. I do what I can to change perception about bisexuals, and have personally changed some minds just by being myself. I may have bad experiences, but I don't become bitter and base everything on something in the past. I live in the now and work toward the future. I'm seeing progress for the bi community and THAT'S what fucking matters.

[drugstore cowboy]

I'm climbing to the back of the closet and never coming out!

It's very clear to me now, why you've experienced so much bi-hatred, and it has nothing to do with sexuality. I do what I can to change perception about bisexuals, and have personally changed some minds just by being myself. I may have bad experiences, but I don't become bitter and base everything on something in the past. I live in the now and work toward the future. I'm seeing progress for the bi community and THAT'S what fucking matters.

Better follow your own advice and live in your locked closet that you sometimes peek out of and then slam the door shut and lock it throwing away the key. ;)

This topic is about GLBT organizations that practice bisexual erasure and are biphobic which many still are.

Things are a lot better now for bisexuals than they were decades ago but there's still a lot of work to be done, and progress for bisexuals isn't going to happen unless people actually come out, stay out, and don't live in fear about being out as bisexual.

I'm not being bitter. I'm not basing everything I'm writing about the rampant biphobia and bisexual erasure by many gay men and lesbians in the past either.

Roughly 3 percent of the nationwide population identifies as bisexual, yet over the last two years, zero grant dollars went toward programs and services specifically dedicated to assisting bisexuals.

I'm simply speaking up for other bisexuals who have posted on this site about how the so called GLBT and gay and lesbian "community" is very biphobic and many gays and lesbians do practice bisexual erasure and are biphobic even today in 2011 while claiming that they want equality for everyone no matter what their sexuality is and pretending that they support bisexuals when they don't. It's not a "conspiracy" or whatever you and other closeted people here want to think.

I've been out for decades as bisexual since before you were even born.

I've been a bisexual activist for decades, and I'll continue to be one.

Unless you're out as bisexual, then you're closeted and you're not out or able to help the bisexual community or GLBT community by staying closeted and hidden.

[Pasadenacpl2]

Are out bisexuals the only people who can help bisexuals, then? The GLBT community learned long ago that they needed other stakeholders in the community (not the just gay community, but the wider human community) in order to succeed. Is it your stance that this is untrue?

Pasa

[hgf33]

Wow, way to intentionally misquote me for your own agenda.

Climbing to the back of the closet and staying there, my own advice? Um, no, you failed to mention the part where I was referring to the fact that, if all bisexuals acted like you, I would refuse to be one of them.

I'm not a complete closet case, but you know me so much better than I do, why do I bother speaking for myself?

You've missed and twisted every point I've made, so what's the sense in me saying I KNOW AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE IS A BI ERASURE/ BI ACCEPTANCE PROBLEM. I've seen it too! I don't like it any more than anyone else. But I'm not going to scoff in the face of anyone who's trying to make a difference.

You've been out of the closet since before I was born. Whoopee. The only thing that makes you is older. So what's your point. Would you like an award?

Actually, you're wrong about the topic. The initial thread was an article about a study that shows that bi men exist. It's a worthless study, and even I pointed out the flaws in the detail of it... yet, I still gave credit because it's something. Someone is trying to help boost visibility and understanding.

The only way I would be harming the community is if I were to be hypocritical by denying and disliking bisexuals. I am proud to be one. Being "in the closet" with a few chosen people who would simply just be hurt and confused by knowing, doesn't affect anything. Their knowing wouldn't change anything anyway! Would you tell a 90-year-old grandparent you took it in the ass? No, because it's not necessary. I'm still bi, many know it, and I push for rights. You don't even have to BE one of the repressed sexual orientations to support them. Many straight people are behind the push for rights and have helped immensely. Really, it's not ANYONE'S fucking business who I'm attracted to, as long as I'm supporting and campaigning for what's right.

[BiDaveDtown]

Nothing's going to get accomplished if we as bisexuals hide in the closet or if some of us have the closeted attitude of "Well I'm out to some people only those who I have sex with but my sexuality is MY business only, nobody else's at all nobody else needs to know at all unless I'm having sex with them, it's fine to pass and hide as heterosexual while in a relationship with a person of the opposite gender, and it's my right to stay closeted and really if anyone else found out it would ruin my career, my kids would be taken away from me by my own mother, and I'd be publically humiliated, ostracized, and run out of a large city all my friends and neighbors! Meanwhile I'm going to call myself heteroflexible since I'm a total coward and calling myself heteroflexible lets me pretend I'm part hetero and I want to pretend that I'm straight for my own benefit when I've never been heterosexual or straight at all ever! I'll just let other bisexuals who are out increase bisexual awareness and visibility while I stay trapped in my comfortable locked closet and bitch and moan about how nobody understands or accepts bisexuality!"

Now imagine if every single GLBT person had this attitude and how nothing would get accomplished and we'd still be second class citizens in the United States and most of the world.

[djones]

Are out bisexuals the only people who can help bisexuals, then? The GLBT community learned long ago that they needed other stakeholders in the community (not the just gay community, but the wider human community) in order to succeed. Is it your stance that this is untrue?

Pasa

Yes, the LGBT groups need other stakeholders - essentially what I mean by my comment that when they do include the B or Bisexuals, it is because they want something from us - to help advance their goals.

I dont write off gay men altogether - dated a few recently. I find that the gay guys that aren't involved in the LGBT "community" are the most open and accepting of Bisexuals and Bisexuality as a normal thing. The LGBT "community" folks are the least accepting. Is that due to a conspiracy ? I never said that. But it is the reality of my, and many other's, experience.

[hgf33]

Nothing's going to get accomplished if we as bisexuals hide in the closet or if some of us have the closeted attitude of "Well I'm out to some people only those who I have sex with but my sexuality is MY business only, nobody else's at all nobody else needs to know at all unless I'm having sex with them, it's fine to pass and hide as heterosexual while in a relationship with a person of the opposite gender, and it's my right to stay closeted and really if anyone else found out it would ruin my career, my kids would be taken away from me by my own mother, and I'd be publically humiliated, ostracized, and run out of a large city all my friends and neighbors! Meanwhile I'm going to call myself heteroflexible since I'm a total coward and calling myself heteroflexible lets me pretend I'm part hetero and I want to pretend that I'm straight for my own benefit when I've never been heterosexual or straight at all ever! I'll just let other bisexuals who are out increase bisexual awareness and visibility while I stay trapped in my comfortable locked closet and bitch and moan about how nobody understands or accepts bisexuality!"

Now imagine if every single GLBT person had this attitude and how nothing would get accomplished and we'd still be second class citizens in the United States and most of the world.

Understandable. Unfortunately, it's lose-lose for some people. If we were accepted, we wouldn't have to worry about losing our children and things like that. In the meantime, it doesn't matter if someone is gay, bi, straight, trans, out or not, anyone can fight for our rights, and as long as they are doing so, it's helping.

Personally, I'm young, not yet married, and I don't have children or a career right now. I don't believe in waiting until you're married with children to come out to your spouse, but every person's story is different. People have different reasons. It's a personal decision. There's nothing wrong with encouraging people to come out, but there's no reason to judge or beat them down if they don't. (Not saying you are, just speaking generally.) People who are bullied don't become stronger and come out. People who are bullied retreat and become too afraid to do much of anything except stay safe and solitary. The more time we spend judging others, the less time we spend doing something productive. That said, I will never encourage anyone to completely hide out in the closet forever because I know how miserable those people can become.

I can only speak for myself. I may not be out 100%, but I am not just sitting idly by in some closeted comfort zone. I push for rights so much that people get sick of me. I publicly wear pride shirts and colors. People probably question my sexuality, but they never just ask me about it. What I'm saying is, I don't care if people think I'm bi, or even if they know. I NEVER lie about who I am. I refuse. If someone asked me point blank, then they will know I'm bisexual because I'm not a liar or a hypocrite. I just simply don't introduce myself with the tagline "and I'm bisexual". I don't need to tell EVERYONE. I don't need to tattoo it on my forehead. Straight people don't need to tell everyone they're straight. Gay people don't need to tell everyone they're gay. If I am out there, in public, with my boyfriend, and also wearing my "I like girls who like girls" t-shirt, then I am not hiding in some proverbial closet, letting everyone else do the dirty work. I'm out there fighting the fight, too. I have many gay and bi friends who don't even do nearly as much advocating as me. The fact that I merely haven't told EVERYONE isn't hurting anything, because I do my part, and then some.

[IanBorthwick]

Most of what I see in this thread is bickering about POV. Who has it, who doesn't, whose is better, whose is worse, invalidations slung left, then slung right...then the simple fact that the trump card is yanked away from those who have seen things first hand and told they are too sensitive, imagining things, making things up, trying to be a victim for attention....the list is long.

Life isn't always what we make it, the lies about that very thing are impressive. In fact, the very lecturing of a bisexual male by a bisexual female is....remarkable, I guess you might say? Oh, yeah, I know, we all have our issues being Bi, but the men suffer a different level of shit and erasure that women don't always get. Then there is the social crap, the labels, the bickering and the bullshitting we deal with.

Make no mistake, you can't argue away a life experience, that's stupid to even try. You can only talk sense so often to people before it becomes stale and the words choke in your throat. Should we care who fights for us...that's what I've seen it come down to.

The answer is yes.

Take for an extreme example, the Nazi party. They "fought" for the rights of "German Citizens". The definition of what made a "German Citizen" was the real issue. When you can create studies that say certain persons are better than others, and they have the right to make decisions for others by right of some esoteric belief in a Superman/woman position, you get the frightening position the Nazis assumed that people just handed them.

Now we can take those quotes and put into them the transposed positions thusly.

Take for example the LG party and how they "fight" for the rights of the "Gay and Lesbian" communities and how they create the definition of who belongs in that community when it SEEMS to be losing letters all the time, and by doing so show what a "Good" member of the community is/ They create "Studies" to say what is and isn't real, and make their decisions with little consultation to the B and the T outside token attempts they feel they have to walk back now and again because the outcry is too loud against it. But make no mistake, they do have people in their community's hierarchy that make decisions about us all the time, and it comes from a belief of superior positioning.

Bickering here in this forum is as useless as ever, because the real world out there takes in so much more than many want to see. If all you see are rainbows and unicorns here, you're not listening to those with the scars from the falling anvils cast out on us...and I have to ask WHY? Why ignore them because their lives differed from yours? Why stand on a soap box and create a persona of supposed fearlessness when you haven't been shown a reason to fear? That's not bravery, that's ignorance.

Dan Savage is a classic case of trying to appeal enough to the masses to maintain a decent level of control, and people that are truly in the forefront of our community acknowledge he's done more bad than good. By his example we've been dealt blows and his 2 line retractions do not absolve him of being a bigot anymore than Mary Daly dying absolves her of her feminist, angry, rhetoric.

Forums were created to SHARE ideas, and I have not seen much of that on this one in all the years I've been here...except for a few very good people. A few VERY patient people, and they know who they are.

Why am I posting this? Because on this forum some people really care, and then there are the prima donnas that play at it, telling us how to think, how to Rose Tint our world to be safe from the troubling pains of reality. There are people who come here looking for help and I see not much getting tossed their way, because a lot of people have an agenda.

LDD and DD, you have no agenda outside of pure, perfect, caring. I salute you both. Those are the only names I am going to share because they can fight their own battles, and wouldn't mind me mentioning them. As for the rest, I would tell them the world is big enough to find your own truth in, and talking here has long since become near useless.

Shaming tactics are for mental midgets, with no sense of a logical argument. If you don't like being called out on what you say AND infer, save your type for a novel. If you don't think a person measures up to your standards of how they should act in regards to this community, you've got a right to say it. But that right to say it won't make you correct IN saying it.

Standing on a right doesn't make you right. Demanding a thing doesn't get it for you.The law may say one thing and the world at large another, so who is right and who is not going to make a difference when you get pounded into dust. These are the rules, some of them anyway, of life on Planet Earth. You're bound to them just like anyone else, and I pray I never have to watch that reality pressed into your consciousness, any of you.

Good luck with your bickering.

[hgf33]

I stick by my first three replies in this thread. The perfectly harmless, perfectly kind and lighthearted sharing. That was my aim, as it always is. My only agenda is for a sense of community and bi acceptance.

I have no problem with people sharing their opinions, even if they differ from mine, as long as they are adults about it. BiDaveTown did a fine job of proving that it can be done.

I see all sides to every argument, regardless of how people choose to read into what I write. Some merely fail to read what's written in black and white without thinking there must be some hidden meaning.

What I refuse to accept are personal attacks on individuals. Many of these replies weren't the finer side of me, so I'm not proud, but I was simply defending myself. I shouldn't have, since I've realized that some people don't have it in them to be polite. That's life. If someone is going to insult me without knowing me, then I'm not going to waste my breath proving otherwise. Thy don't deserve to know the real me.

In short, I'm taking responsibility for MY actions, and I'm done with this nonsense. Let's all get back to the important issues, instead of looking for a fight.