View Full Version : Biphobia - how do you deal with it?
RobUK
Apr 19, 2012, 10:29 AM
Hi everyone!
How do you personally deal with biphobia (biphobia doesn't sound the right word, but it's the only one I can think of - like digs/slurs about bisexuality - not really a 'phobia', or fear of...).
Like, if a guy who identifies himself as gay says to you he doesn't believe in bisexuality, or that you're really gay, how do you respond? I'm never sure as to how to act - I kinda want to say something against what I see as a prejudice/intolerance/ignorance, but, at the same time, I think that everyone is entitled to their opinion and why cause an argument? I really struggle to understand people who through out some personal opinion like that - I'm atheist, but I wouldn't say to a Christian "There is no god. You're lying to yourself.". I don't understand why someone would. It's not considered acceptable now for someone to say say to someone who identifies themselves as gay that "It's just a phase" or "They just haven't met the right girl yet" but I don't see how that's any different to saying to a bisexual that they're "either gay, straight, or lying"...
So, how does everyone respond when someone makes a negative comment about their sexuality?
Bi_Druid
Apr 19, 2012, 10:46 AM
To be honest, now I think about it, personally I've been somewhat lucky in that no one has made any biphobic comments at me. At least not directly.
I'd like to think that if anyone did I'd be able to come up with something witty to parry them with. For instance, "just a phase" for me has proved rather a long one, since birth, so life itself is just as much a phase too. On a slight side note, a nice t-shirt slogan I saw someone wearing at the last Oxford BiFest read "Just a phase is just a phrase", which did make me giggle and think I may just use that.
I can appreciate not wanting to cause arguments, but with something like this one should stand up for themselves if challenged, or else bisexuality will just remain to be seen as non-existant, a fad, a phase, etc.
By the way, Biphobia is the correct, or at the very least in my experiences the most commonly used term for what you're describing.
Jobelorocks
Apr 19, 2012, 10:49 AM
Generally I dispel the myths and talk about how they aren't true. For people saying you are really gay, I usually tell them that I can say they aren't really gay (or straight if they are straight) and they are just going through a phase and will soon find their "true" sexuality.Then I explain, obviously that is not fair and I can't possibly know what is going on in their head and they can't know what is going on in mine. Sexuality is not a choice and when they tell me to "pick a side" they are treating it as if it were a choice. They can no more choose to be straight then I can choose to be gay. I generally tell them also it is not their place to tell other people what their sexuality is.
Long Duck Dong
Apr 19, 2012, 11:06 AM
mm I am a asshole to them at times..... and I get sarcastic...
tell me that bisexuality doesn't exist and I will offer to prove to you and your wife that it does..... and ya daughter too if shes of legal age....
tell me that bisexuality doesn't exist and I will say that they say the same thing about god.. and there is a good number of believers in him....
tell me that bisexuality is a phase and I will say so is intelligent thinking, you must be having a off day.....
tell me that bisexuality is just confused people and I will ask why they are so happy if they are confused....
tell me that bisexuality is a excuse for people to sleep with the same sex cos they can not get laid otherwise and I will say, thats not what ya wife said to me last time we had sex with her brother.....
tell me that bisexuals are actually gays in denial.... and I will say to you that they are actually avoiding the bigoted gays that hate everybody....
yes I have a big mouth, but I have the fists to back it up........
honestly tho, if a person wanted to talk with me about bisexuality, I will happily talk with them about it..... its the people that want to get in my face and tell me that I and many others do not exist or are not good enuf to be bisexual, that tend to annoy me..... so one of my fav comebacks is to say to people that as a asexual natured bisexual, I am more than likely getting more sex than them with their mouth and attitude.....
darkeyes
Apr 19, 2012, 11:52 AM
yes I have a big mouth, but I have the fists to back it up........
Had 2 deal with a 14yo lad earlier 2day who said summat like that.. mature dontcha think? I have a big gob an all.. all I have is more big gob an me wits... works for me...
Long Duck Dong
Apr 19, 2012, 12:34 PM
well fran, I generally do not have to deal with teenagers with mouths..... its the adults that are the issue.... most of the teenagers I know, are generally good for poking fun but they are not nasty about it....
if anything, I have noticed a lessening of the LGBT bashing ( mouths and fists ) in my town and I am a lil curious as to why that is... its like there is a softening of opinions or they are whispered more than spoken loudly
darkeyes
Apr 19, 2012, 1:50 PM
Most teens are the same, Duckie.. but if u lived where u were born u would soon find out that gangs of 'em are owt but... and seem to remember quite a few of ur posts in the past which tell of a different view of the young u hold from the one u espoused in the post above.... but havin' said that..am not sure u got me point.. maybe u did.. but it doesn't show...
tenni
Apr 19, 2012, 6:40 PM
I think whether you are "out" or in closet(as some like to write), it is up to you how to deal with biphobic statements.
I sit on a couple of artist run centre Boards. It is rare for biphobic or homophobic statements to be made within these organizations. However, even if a person is not out, what you say can be seen as taking a stand on biphobic or homophobic statements.
We had to deal with youth at risk (street kids type) making homophobic and racist statements in the lyrics that they were creating while making rap music. One of the staff is gay and very pro active. We had to balance freedom of expression (censorship) with inappropriate comments about other marginalized people. It was a tricky balance. Only one person was "out" as gay but all on the committee were supportive. I do refer to marginalized people when I speak on these boards. I do use the words bisexual when discussing marginalized people. By my words and actions, I show my position without having to scream "bi guy here". When this censorship/slurs came up to the Board meeting, one Board member(non artist) did make some very negative comments about perversion. I challenged him rather quickly as to what he meant. He began to make it worse. I asked that we move the meeting along before it got ugly. The next Board meeting and committee meeting will have to deal with this attitude from one board member. I will definitely be bringing it up next week at our committee meeting. I'm not out but my reaction to him was obviously not going to let it go unchallenged. You don't need to get a bisexual or gay tattoo, bracelet etc. to speak out against biphobia. What you say is up to you. Letting it go by without comment is probably not a good thing to do.
Long Duck Dong
Apr 20, 2012, 3:56 AM
Most teens are the same, Duckie.. but if u lived where u were born u would soon find out that gangs of 'em are owt but... and seem to remember quite a few of ur posts in the past which tell of a different view of the young u hold from the one u espoused in the post above.... but havin' said that..am not sure u got me point.. maybe u did.. but it doesn't show...
think of it this way fran.... I never reveal what is going on in my head and what I am thinking, just ask DD......
its a wise man that doesn't share all that he knows, for that is what makes him wise... a fool speaks about all they know and reveals how lil they do know.....
I have different views of different youth cos most teens are not the same..... they are as diverse as hell..... I know teens that are nice people and I know teens that are in youth prison... I know teens that would help a elderly lady across the road and I know teens that would knock her to the ground and take her last dollar
so yeah, depending on what teens I am referring to, there is a difference in what I say about them......
yes I got your point.....I am not 14... I am 41... there is a difference between a person with a mouth that thinks they can take on the world... and a person that has proven that he will take on the world.... but often also protect the world he lives in..... so yes, I got your point, fran but you are crowing at the sunset while I sat and watched the sun rise
darkeyes
Apr 20, 2012, 7:23 AM
Bows b4 the font of all wisdom...:bowdown:
...part of me point, Duckie.. not quite all...;)
Long Duck Dong
Apr 20, 2012, 7:26 AM
you are bowing before the google search engine ??? or the windows live one ?
Bisexual Explorer
Apr 20, 2012, 9:35 AM
Please, let's get back to the point of this thread. Seems to me that its a waste of time trying to change biphobics' minds. Why bother? If someone says that there is no such thing as bisexuality, I let it pass. Though I may take a moment to fantasize about doing the offender, his/her spouse, and their of-age sons or daughters. (Thank you LDD). If someone threatens me because they think I'm bisexual or gay, I move on quickly. I've got better things to do than deal with more morons and idiots than I have to.
Bisexual Explorer
Realist
Apr 20, 2012, 10:40 AM
My biggest detractors have both been gay lovers. Very few of my straight friends ever knew I was bisexual, so I'm not sure what they'd say. My attitude has always been, "If they are not involved, why discuss it?"
I will discuss my thoughts with lovers, but when it comes to dogmatic condemnations, or fanatical diatribes, I'm out of there. Rarely are those prone to that kind of communication able to see others' views. Why bother?
I know me and am comfortable with me; no one else can change that. I do not want to change anyone, nor do I want them to change me.
My thought process may be swayed by gentle persuasion, but rarely by force.
Life and let live.
void()
Apr 21, 2012, 3:29 AM
Potentia est liberum inter pares. Mea volumina sunt aliquando satis dura, praesertim circa Lorem populus.
Nextyearsxmassgifts
Apr 21, 2012, 1:26 PM
The few times I have experienced biphobia. It has come from gay men. I have a lack of understanding why someone who lives a life prone to discrimination would do the same to someone ells. To me, that is the first sign of an I.Q. equal to there shoe size. Like the bible thumpers, there just not smart enough to open there mind to the idea that not everyone is like you and most importunately. Not everyone wants to be like you!!!! In most cases, I dont even bother with them. I find that a condescending laugh and walking away. Pisses them off more then any quick come back.
I dont live openly but that dose not mean I keep silent and on the sidelines. I just pick my battles. If its from someone that is just uninformed. I will take the time to enlighten them. Its not always easy to tell who you can resin with and who you cant. But I have found that those who use the word "believe" are the ones that wont open there minds to new ideas. Beliefs can be dangerous, as they are rigid and dont often change. If someone avoids or just doesn't use it. They seem to have more of a miss understanding. They only have ideas of what bisexuality is. Ideas are open to change and can grow.
If all ells fails. I am quick witted enough to verbally cut them down so size.
coldfire78
Apr 22, 2012, 2:44 AM
I am an ordained minister, and yes, I'm bisexual - I have a deep faith in God, but I am well studied enough to know the fallacies of the Bible. I also do not believe that science and "religion" should be separated and ultimately practiced as enemies of each other -- the way I see it, the more science reveals to us about the fascinating and unique makeup of our bodies, our planet, our universe etc, the stronger my faith in God becomes because it would just be an inordinate amount of "coincidences" otherwise. As you can imagine, I have come under fire quite a bit. Whenever someone says "Bisexuality doesn't exist" or "Men laying with men is an abomination" I reply "EVERY MAN on this planet is bisexual. Genetically women are XX. Men are XY. Therefore, every man on this planet is half woman, whether he likes it or not. Not only is this confirmed through chromosomal analysis, but can also be seen through early fetal development. Every fetus starts out as female, and it is only the presence of the Y chromosome and testosterone at a particular point in development that the ovaries become testicles, the clitoris a penis, etc etc. So if bisexuality and homosexuality is a sin, then why did God make every man genetically bisexual in the first place? You say bisexuality doesn't exist, or that I am confused, or that I am simply a homosexual in denial. I say back to you, I am not confused, I know exactly who I am from a cellular level forward. I like both men and women, and it's because I have been designed by God to do so. You are the one who is confused if you can't even recognize your own duality, a simple basic fact of your own existance established from the very moment of your own conception."
This usually shuts people up.
I could go on in even more detail about this, but I know not everyone reading this has the same faith in God as myself. Of course, I know that many LGBT's lack of faith stems from the hypocrisy and rejection of their orientation from mainstream religious idiots - people who preach with closed minds and big mouths from a book that they haven't actually taken the time to study it's history properly. To those people who have been hurt by the "religious ignorance" that has been allowed to run rampant for so long, I just want to say I am sorry. I offer my hand in friendship, and truth if you wish to learn.
My biggest biphobic irritation is when people say "Its ok for a woman and woman to be together, but its sick/wrong/gross etc etc for a man and a man to be together." I always ask them "Why the double standard?" Not one person has ever been able to answer.
Nextyearsxmassgifts
Apr 22, 2012, 6:00 AM
Thank you coldfire78. I is not often someone gives me a new and interesting way of looking at things. You have a vary compelling argument. I can agree with your point of view and it is supported by science. But how do you explain the existence of bisexual women? Not that it truly needs explaining. People are who they are and I dont believe anyone needs explanation to exist. I like your point of view and would like to heir what you have to say on this topic. That is why Im playing devils advocate. To expand on this interesting point of view.
I to am an ordained minister. Not so much because of faith. I became ordained to prove to some irritating "religious idiots" as you called them. The hypocrisy of organized religion. It is to easy to gain tittle that gives someone the right to preach the word of god. To gain power over someones faith is a responsibility that should not be given so easily. Pleas believe me when I say I do not mean any disrespect to you and others that have a true faith. It is to prove to others that there are those that gain there tittle to preach the word of god for there own gain. Not to strengthen there fellow man in his faith.
tenni
Apr 22, 2012, 8:46 AM
"So if bisexuality and homosexuality is a sin, then why did God make every man genetically bisexual in the first place?" Post 16
You are really kewl for a Christian minister Coldfire78 :) However, isn't the above sentence that God made every man genetically bigender and not bisexual? The fetus starts off as a non sexual preference being...no desire for sex acts but female sex until the Y chromosone kicks in to make it male sex. Sexuality (sexual preference) is not gender nor sex. Sexuality(heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual) is who we are sexually attracted to . The word "sex" deals with anatomical parts that we are born with. (I know ..so confusing at times..lol)
darkeyes
Apr 22, 2012, 9:59 AM
"So if bisexuality and homosexuality is a sin, then why did God make every man genetically bisexual in the first place?" Post 16
You are really kewl for a Christian minister Coldfire78 :) However, isn't the above sentence that God made every man genetically bigender and not bisexual? The fetus starts off as a non sexual preference being...no desire for sex acts but female sex until the Y chromosone kicks in to make it male sex. Sexuality (sexual preference) is not gender nor sex. Sexuality(heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual) is who we are sexually attracted to . The word "sex" deals with anatomical parts that we are born with. (I know ..so confusing at times..lol)
I have no intention of going into the xy/xx issue.. but the question on a more general basis than Coldfire is important and it is one which many those of many religions have an answer.. the question of why do homosexuality and bisexuality exist when God has made us so? The answer most usually thrown is one that it is a test that we are made sinful so that we are able to prove to God that we are worthy by resisting the sin.. there are many variations of this.. we are able to kill, eat each other, lie, steal.. o yea..and have sex out of wedlock and/or with the spouse of another.. and many other things which we are supposed to resist. Some of these things my rationale tell me are indeed sinful..which is why I am a pacifist and have other ideals which so far, while often frustrating have stood me in good stead,and why I care so deeply for life of all kinds and the world around us.. what is sinful is something each of us much work out for ourselves although society, being as it is based on religious teachings has this annoying habit of telling us what is good for us and not allowing us to rationalise things for ourselves.
Religion does influence not just our society, but each of us because it is so deeply ingrained in our history and culture.. we may not believe in God, but what is claimed as the word of God has influence on us whether we like it or not.. my rationale that there is no God arguably allows me a greater freedom to know when I am being conned and to break free of what I believe is not the word of God, but the word of man, or at least a few men, formulated as a method of control over the minds and lives of the many.. much within religion of all kinds I believe is the bringing together of human experience often with good intentions, but often also quite malign.. and both good and bad has been integrated into various religions not because God said so and wishes it but because man, or a few men wished it in ages past, and many still wish it now.. they do not wish humankind freedom of thought except that which they wish to grant.
This is but my opinion and one I have often written of it in these forums, and occasionally been hauled over the coals for it. I mean no disrespect to those who believe in God, but it is in my opinion just as valid and argument as any that what we are is a gift or a curse from God sent to use wisely or resist on the rather thin grounds that it is sin.. both bi-phobia and homophobia arise very often out of religious conviction.. even among some who are gay or bisexual, and some arises out of our cultural and historical religious past which has been implanted in our minds by societal and parental upbringing. Even some who are gay or bisexual suffer from a phobia about their own kid... I am gay but I suffer no biphobia.. I may disagree with many about some of the issues surrounding biphobia but not that bisexuality exists or that bisexuals are very much a part of our world. Human beings are what they are when it comes to sexuality and we should neither be proud of it or ashamed.. just accept what nature, not God has given us.. and enjoy it and use it wisely and with love... and accept and understand as best we can the gift that nature have to everyone else.
coldfire78
Apr 23, 2012, 2:43 AM
To Nextyear and Tenni: Thank you, I appreciate your thumbs up and I am glad you both seen that there is more. I answered the biphobia question as it is aimed at me, an answer to people who have a tendency to view the world as black and white - as opposed to a world that is in fact varying shades of gray.
When I first began my search for truth and knowledge, I was struggling with my bisexuality and my faith in God. I never understood how the Bible said both things simultaneously: that God made me to be exactly who I am, but that it was sinful and wrong for me to even desire to be with another man. I knew at a very young age that I was attracted to both men and women, and it has stayed with me my whole life. I knew in my heart that it's not a "choice" or a "test" - the God who created me and gave me the gift of life would not set me up for failure like that. Then I began to notice other discrepancies: Commandment 6 "Thou shalt not kill" - but Exodus 22:18 says "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". In fact, Exodus and Leviticus are full of laws in which you are purportedly required to murder - all in the name of a God who first commands us not to kill. It was then that I noticed these were Moses' Laws, not God's Laws ---love how darkeyes said "to break free of what I believe is not the word of God, but the word of man" because that is exactly what I realized at that moment ----- and that changed my entire mindset regarding the Bible. I began to study the history of the Bible itself, how it came to be. What I discovered was that it is a 3,000 year old gossip magazine full of human interference...and 75% of it should be taken with a grain of salt. (Or a sledge hammer, whichever you prefer...)
Well, after I had successfully reconciled my own sexuality through science and the evidence of Biblical fallacy, I too had the same realization -- I could explain male bisexuality, but not female. The closest I could come up with was that in any given "heterosexual" relationship, it was 75% female genetic material, so there had to be some sort of "like drawn to like" on the x chromosomes. So I prayed. (I know, but you asked.) After asking God for further clarification, I was reminded of some of the scientific information I had come across regarding other animals. Like single-celled organisms being asexual, earthworms being hermaphrodites..... one species of lizard is entirely female and yet still reproduces........one species of lizard is entirely female and still reproduces! Like a lightbulb going on, I suddenly realized that its the way the world views gender. Gender is not black and white, but varying shades of gray. And I had known the answer to this since jr high biology when I first learned about the XX/XY chromosomes, I just never seen it for what it was.
If you stop thinking of two seperates sexes - male and female - and start looking at it as a single female sex with certain members of the population having chromosomally mutated sexual organs only for the further and continued perpetuation of the species, then the chips finally fall into place. Especially when you look outside of the human species. Every animal upon this planet engages in "bisexual" activity --- and of the 4 species that engage in sexual activity for pleasure outside the realm of estrus (heat cycles) - humans, chimps, bonobos, and dolphins - only humans have placed moral implications upon their sex drives. Furthermore, the bisexual activity in the other 3 species has been studied, and has been shown to produce a closer, tighter knit, more protective community for its members and strongly enhances the communities likelihood for survival while diminishing in-fighting.
I believe, that as society as a whole moves towards acceptance of the LGBT community, more and more people are going to move further and further away from the Biblical mindset that same sex relationships are wrong because they already know in their hearts what has been programmed into their bodies....and that more and more people will come to accept their own bisexuality.
Tenni is right with the terms, but I chose to use what is used in modern lexicon. I suppose for the purposes of this post, I could have said that everybody is "unigendered with chromosomally selected bigendered mutations upon the sexual organs, solely for the continued perpetuation of the species by the diversification and distribution of genetic material, without regard for the omni-preferencial nature of the sexual drive." :-)
coldfire78
Apr 23, 2012, 3:16 AM
Also to Next : I am very much a Godly man, and I believe in God's Laws. I am not a religious man, because religion by definition is a man-made doctrine restricting the path to God. It is not about how you get to God that matters, it's about your relationship with Him. I say this as a definition of myself to you, not as an antagonistic response to your words. :-) I call myself a Christian in that I believe in Jesus' teachings - though I also know that Jesus was a man before the Council of Nicea, and after the Council he was deified as an attempt to put an end to the bloody wars being fought between the Christians and the Pagans.
There are many "Christians" out there who believe in the perfection of the Bible as it stands - they haven't taken the time to really study the history of the book they are using to condemn, judge, and vilify others. Nor are they actually paying attention to their own teachings - Jesus' main lessons were of love and acceptance. Yet so many mainstream Christians openly practice hate and intolerance. I don't, and I won't. When I was pastoring, I was very strict about that in my church -- that regardless of where another persons station in life rested at any particular moment, I was not to hear of a single member of my congregation downgrade another, or pass guilt or condemnation of any kind. It is not our job to as pastors to pass judgement, or manipulate for our own personal gain. Our job is to shepherd and guide, to teach, and to love and nurture our flock as they continue on their own path towards God. That is it, and nothing more. :-)
axlton
Apr 23, 2012, 1:00 PM
I usually deal with biphobia at the end of a baseball bat, that way they have good reason to be afraid. :) JK
The way i deal with negative comments, especially the I don't exist chest nut is by saying...
"Look I could just as easily say that gay doesn't exist, that you're really just a straigt person living in the closet, but then we'd both know I was full of shit, rather than just me knowing that you're full of shit"
As for anything else, I just explain my position and hopefully they can be made to understand, if not well then It's baseball bat time! :)
Bi_Druid
Apr 23, 2012, 3:18 PM
them - "but bisexuals don't actually exist"
me - "yes it must be frustrating being caught talking to yourself like this, no wonder folks are giving you odd looks."
FunE1
Apr 24, 2012, 9:39 PM
I haven't really had any issues of biphobia, bi slurs, etc. At least not serious ones. I have had some gay friends joke about bi's really being gay, or when I was dating a woman recently, making comments like "you'll be gay again when she's gone" but I just share with them my experiences and how I view my sexuality. No real drama, however.
PeterNZ
Apr 25, 2012, 12:01 AM
I haven't really had any issues of biphobia, bi slurs, etc. At least not serious ones. I have had some gay friends joke about bi's really being gay, or when I was dating a woman recently, making comments like "you'll be gay again when she's gone" but I just share with them my experiences and how I view my sexuality. No real drama, however. Biphobia and bisexual erasure from gay men that they try to play off as a joke. Nothing surprising there. These assholes aren't your mates even if they claim to be. A real friend will accept you for who you are and your sexuality and won't be dismissive with offensive jokes about it. It's akin to someone being racist or homophobic/biphobic by telling racist or homophobic/biphobic jokes. Then claiming that they're not really racist, or homophobic/biphobic at all but just telling a joke. :rolleyes: