I was outed!

[alittlebendy]

I left my cell phone at home, the wife is a "snooper" and found my cell phone. i've been in the closet for all my life....now the shit has hit the fan........ I love her more than I love myself. what to do now? She just told me she's going to leave me because I have bisexual urges... I dont think I can live with out her but I dont think she will understand me being bisexual.


I NEED ADVICE!

[tenni]

jeZus..there are some sick feks on this site Raging ol judgemental freaks. :( Are you "dudes" really bitter jilted women or something? OH the inhumanity and lack of compassion you show..lol OH, I see that dirk lists himself as a "straight" "man". figures.

Sorry OP
You have not really given sufficient information for anyone to give you a lot of advice will be helpful. You have same sex urges and somehow by looking at your cell phone she was able to detect this? Are there messages about you having sex with other men that she read?..or voice mails? Have you been lying to her as you are being accused?

The only advice that I can give based on the little information is two fold.
a/ open up and be honest with her
b/ protect yourself as much as you can financially should she leave. (move your money and hide as much as you can)(I know that I will be shit on for writing that..lol):yikes2:

Good luck.

[bityme]

I left my cell phone at home, the wife is a "snooper" and found my cell phone. i've been in the closet for all my life....now the shit has hit the fan........ I love her more than I love myself. what to do now? She just told me she's going to leave me because I have bisexual urges... I dont think I can live with out her but I dont think she will understand me being bisexual.


I NEED ADVICE!

Hey Bendy,

Don't take things so hard. Assuming the information you have given about relationships is correct, on January 11, 2013, when you joined, you were divorced but in a LTR. On May 12, 2013, you wrote about drives to your girlfriends parents when she gave you a BJ or HJ while fingering your ass. Presumably, you got married within the last 12 days.

Been in the closet for all your life? Yes, you are out now, at least to her.

She's going to leave you because you have bisexual urges? Not because she found you have acted on them (like the $400 hotel room)? She knows you like your ass being fingered but is surprised you have "bisexual urges"? Perhaps she needs a reality check.

Don't think you can live without her? Of course you can, you've already been through one divorce, obviously, you know that relationships can change.

Need advice? That's the hard part! Advice is really nothing more than an opinion and, like assholes, everyone's got one! Seems like you have some choices. (1) You can let the relationship end, go your separate ways and suffer the heartache. (2) You can attempt to save the relationship by convincing her that your "bisexuality" is a thing of the past and you are committed and will remain true to her alone. (3) You can attempt to save the relationship by convincing her you love only her and will remain true to her on an emotional basis, but you can't deny your bisexuality which is nothing more than a need to fulfill physical urges; you are not, and have never been romantically interested in guys.

Option One is easy. Just sit back and let it happen.

Option Two might work, but will bring you even more problems in the future. Based on your posts, it is doubtful that you can instantly become totally monogamous without taking action on your bisexual urges at some point in the future.

Option Three is by far the hardest. Opening an honest dialogue with someone you have not been totally open with is difficult. An even more difficult task is redefining your relationship to include the freedom for you to express your bisexuality. That means even more change for her than for you with regard to attitudes about love, physicality, acceptance of alternative lifestyles, etc. Everything about your relationship will have to be open to negotiation and compromise. You will have to realize that it might not work and, if you don't find a common ground, you could be back to Option One.

The only advice I can give you is be honest with yourself about who you are and what your needs are and don't establish long term relationships without a full disclosure to the other party and their acceptance of you as a complete individual as you are, and vice versa.

Pappy

[hasty1]

Honestly, she's threatening to leave you because you've cheated, by your own admission on this site. This is the risk you took, and you will have to bear the consequences whatever they eventually turn out to be. She may have accepted your bisexual urges, as I do my partners, but you didn't give her the choice. What's done is done though and at the moment it may feel like the end of the world but if she loves you there may be hope. Much depends on her attitude to cheating, for me it would be a hard thing to overcome and I doubt my ability to do it, but I've not been put to the test. If it's really a deal breaker for her then there's not much you can do. The only advice I can give you is complete and utter honesty, with yourself and with her. Make sure she understands the importance you place on having her in your life, and place your bisexuality in it's correct place, how important it is if you know, whether you could be monogamous in the future and answer all her questions.

I have a question for you, how would you feel if you have found that she had cheated on you? Do you rely on her fidelity in the same way she has relied on yours? Be honest with yourself, it's too easy to say now 'of course I wouldn't mind' How would you really react and feel? She's shocked, hurt and angry at the moment, maybe you can get your relationship back, maybe not but whilst not wishing to heap on the misery this is the outcome of decisions that you made, and you must have always known that this was a possibility? Or did you imagine you could fool her and base your relationship on an untruth forever? I understand that society makes honesty a difficult decision, but with those you love and are having a sexual relationship with, well I think we would all like to think that we were in an honest relationship.

PS - if she does leave then my advice is to be financially fair with her, I think it's the least you can do. That's not 'give her everything and let her take you to the cleaners', just do the decent thing.

[Spiro]

I agree with both Hasty1 and bityme but Just forget dirkdiggler & drugstore-cowboy's comments for a minute. No one knows karma, and really to throw up karma in a one life event is stupid. Karma is over lifetimes. Hence perspective is important. I agree that honesty is very important but I can not throw stones. Sorry dirkdiggler & drugstore-cowboy,

but you are being given a chance to come to terms with who you are or want to be. Don't lose this opportunity to grow, learn from your past. Be honest with yourself.

Sam

[alittlebendy]

Wow. Thanks for making me feel from "bad" to "su sucidial". Dirk and Drugstore. If only we were all as pius and without err as you two the world would be filled with rainbow unicorn ponies and our sewers would smell. Like tulips. Must be nice to be so fucking perfect, and never ever had had confusion about your sexuality...or anything for that mattier. I hear there is an opening for Christ. Maybe you two can apply. You could even take turns being Jesus. One day Drugstore can be without sin, the next day Dirk can raise Lazurus from the dead and heal the blind with mud and spit.

[alittlebendy]

To bytime: yeah she is my "girlfriend" but we are only missing apiece of paper.to be husband and wife. We wear rings, share a house, have each other as " contact in case of accident". Except for taxes and the fact they got rid of common law marrige in this state we are married.

[jamieknyc]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but a divorce court doesn't care if he was cheating with men, women, animals or Martians. Division of property, if there is any division (in a lot of cases there isn't), is the same whether she is divorcing him because he is a 'cheater' or whether she had a whim to run off to join the circus

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

[QUOTE=alittlebendy;251271]

"I left my cell phone at home, the wife is a "snooper" and found my cell phone. i've been in the closet for all my life....now the shit has hit the fan........ I love her more than I love myself. what to do now? She just told me she's going to leave me because I have bisexual urges... I dont think I can live with out her but I dont think she will understand me being bisexual. "

I didnt see anywhere where it stated that you Had cheated, but the main factor is, you Did withhold pertinent information from her. Withholding info is as bad as cheating, Hon. Hopefully, ya'll can get into some kind of counseling and get this straightened out. If not, I'm sorry for ya.
And for Dirk and Drugstore, go take a chill pill somewhere. Both of you need help with your Grumpy-Cat impressions.:rolleyes:
Cat

[elian]

I think all you can do is to reassure her that you love her. If you were ashamed, afraid or too embarrassed to tell her that you think you like both men and women, now is the time to admit that. There are a lot of hurt feelings right now on both sides so it may not feel like it but you are not alone and you are still loved. Please keep talking, and be as honest as you can.

[darkeyes]

I don't want 2 sound unsympathetic, cos that isn't my intention, but name of thread isn't rite is it? U weren't outed.. u wer rumbled. Wy she decided 2 snoop I have no idea and u haven't really given us a clue.. we can only assume u were acting in a way wich made her be suspicious or summat else made her wonder... I assume she hasn't told the world cos u haven't sed.. if she does then u will have been outed.. trouble wiv being naughty boy or girl and not saying owt 2 ya partner no matter the gender and sexuality of the people involved.. fair chance u will do summat daft 2 make them suss ya.. and if u get rumbled allya can do is hold hands up and say "K.. soz..(grovel grovel) it's a fair cop" and try and repair the damage somehow... and trust me.. hav been ther and done that.. and it isn't easy..and it involves a lot of pain and a lot of talking and u may never save the relationship.. trust is a difficult thing 2 regain 1ce it's been wrecked... but it isn't impossible. Trouble with monogamous relationships... peeps dont take kindly 2 3rd parties becoming involved no matter the sexuality and gender of those 3rd parties...

[fredtyg]

Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. If the gal would have seen his private stuff, then told everyone about it, that would be outing him. He was just discovered.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

yeah, but she must have had some Reason for snooping. That's why "Most" women go snooping, because they Suspect that something is amiss, and/or going on in the first place. If she had that insecurity, then there must be a reason that Prompted it in the first place. She was looking for answers, and looks like she found them. But there's a wise old saying, too: "Be careful what you seek. Make sure its the answers you want"
Good Luck, Guys...
Cat

[fredtyg]

Yeah, but snooping and outing are two different things, although I suppose he was inadvertently outed to her.

That sort of snooping would be a deal breaker for me, though. I wouldn't stand for it. Then again, some of us leave our stuff so out in the open it's not hard to stumble upon.

[hasty1]

Cat - I based what I said about him cheating by his own admission on his other posts on this site, not this one. I wasn't assuming. x

[chapsmccall]

before yall get all buzzed up on this subject----- what the heck was she doing going thru your phone?????thats like going thru you wallet or going thru your mail.she needs to learn that privacy needs to be maintained..... if it aint hers then hands off

[cherry88]

before yall get all buzzed up on this subject----- what the heck was she doing going thru your phone?????thats like going thru you wallet or going thru your mail.she needs to learn that privacy needs to be maintained..... if it aint hers then hands off

so snooping is unethical but fucking other guys behind her back is not?

i say, dont do the crime if you cant do the time.

[tenni]

so snooping is unethical but fucking other guys behind her back is not?

i say, dont do the crime if you cant do the time.

Based on reports on this site:
a/ women tend to go into their partner's personal space such as cell phones because they lack trust and are possessive more so than men. I don't recall one report here that a man went into his wife's cell phone/emails.
b/ men tend to have sex with other men without the woman knowing ..aka..cheat because the guy doesn't think that the woman will "understand". I don't recall one woman saying that they cheated with another woman because their husbands won't understand.

Which is the worse crime? Both are wrong but there seems to be more dislike/negative comments for men who have sex with other men without informing their female partner.

[Gearbox]

The OP's gf was wronged and she found that out by wronging him. On both counts it seems "Serves your right!" would fit.
Strangely though, coz the OP's gf found something while snooping, some would think she was 'right' to snoop. I doubt she'd report her snooping if she didn't find anything, same as the OP wouldn't admit his cheating unless caught.

The OP's gf would be excused of her trust issues coz all blame for that would be put on the OP - he must have acted suspiciously to MAKE her snoop etc. But no such excuse is made for the OP's cheating. THAT in a monog relationship is the ultimate sin and many start throwing stones on the get go.
No such thing as 'He/she must have MADE him/her cheat!'. All blame is put on the cheater as if he/she had no reason to cheat.
There's ALWAYS a reason, but many would rather view it as an act of pure evil.:bigrin:

[darkeyes]

Trust me, tenni.. men r every bit as paranoid as women wen it cums 2 snooping!

[hasty1]

Ok tenni and gearbox, what's the answer? How have you dealt with insecurities on your relationships? What do you do when your partner, who you believe you are having a monogamous relationship with, is acting suspiciously and has changed their behaviour and denies that there is anything to discuss? Maybe they're both wrong in this scenario so what's the right thing? This is an honest question, I really want to know what I can expect from my relationship with my bisexual man, is it inevitable he will cheat on me? If he does do I have to forgive and ignore because he's bisexual? Do I have the right to find out?

[Chris_t_boston]

I left my cell phone at home, the wife is a "snooper" and found my cell phone. i've been in the closet for all my life....now the shit has hit the fan........ I love her more than I love myself. what to do now? She just told me she's going to leave me because I have bisexual urges... I dont think I can live with out her but I dont think she will understand me being bisexual.


I NEED ADVICE!

Putting aside whether or not snooping is something that wives should do, here's my take on your situation:

First, you need to sit down and talk to her. I suggest you get everything out in the open NOW... no trickle truth, no parsing of words. You (a) denied her informed consent by withholding your bisexuality from her when you got married, (b) you cheated on her and (c) you lied. Apologize for all of these.

Do NOT apologize for being bisexual and having those urges. These are NOT something you can decide to have/not have.

Second, ask her to read some of the notable books on bisexuality so she realizes that what you are telling her isn't just a line of BS.

Third, ask her not to make any decisions yet. This will give you time to get into marriage counseling.

Fouth, there are some Yahoo groups you and she can join. Making Mixed Orientation Marriages Work (for both of you), Alternate Paths (AP) and Wives of Bi/Gay Husbands (WOBGH) for her. AP concentrates on making marriages work, WOBGH is decidedly anti-bi/gay husbands. My wife belongs to both because she wants to hear both sides of the story.

What will happen over the next few months? If you stay together over the next few months, this is what you can expect:

Hurt
Anger
Confusion
Questioning
You married her knowing you were bi and never told her.
Your marriage was a lie.
Mistrust... something that is difficult to earn back.
She will try to fuck you straight.
In the course of a day, she will want to kill you, make love to you, divorce you, stay married to you.

This is normal. It's a roller coaster ride and you're along for the ride IF you want to stay married.

As I said, important to get everything out now while you can. The slightest misstep as you try to recover will just send any efforts into a tailspin.

[Gearbox]

Ok tenni and gearbox, what's the answer? How have you dealt with insecurities on your relationships? What do you do when your partner, who you believe you are having a monogamous relationship with, is acting suspiciously and has changed their behaviour and denies that there is anything to discuss? Maybe they're both wrong in this scenario so what's the right thing? This is an honest question, I really want to know what I can expect from my relationship with my bisexual man, is it inevitable he will cheat on me? If he does do I have to forgive and ignore because he's bisexual? Do I have the right to find out?
IMO if you want honesty and disclosure you have to reject monogamy in the sexual exclusive sense, and all the trappings that got you there. Nothing to do with being bisexual!
Contrary to belief, I have been in a few monog relationships and have never cheated. But I also have never accepted any sexual monog holds on any partner. As far as I was concerned they were free to go have sex with who they please. IMO, neither I or anybody else, has any right to demand otherwise. To believe that you do, is to build a castle on sand and create a little bubble for any insecurities you have yet to deal with. Its the first act of 'cheating' that gets ignored when moral stones get flung at the sexual 'cheater'.

Can you expect your husband to cheat? That depends on how long you drag your heels protecting your issues, and how strong his need to act as person is against acting as a partner/how badly he needs a man.
You'll notice that the most common reason for 'cheating' is that (1) My partner will NEVER understand why or how badly I need sex with others. (2) He/she will NEVER feel ok with me having sex with others. (3) I don't want to leave her/him to have sex with others.
The obvious solution (to some) is to have sex with others in secrecy and spare them the trauma - cheat!

Do you have a right to snoop into his mobile etc (find out)? No of course you don't!
If you think he needs to go behind your back at any time, that is when you really need to consider WHY you think its better for him behind your back than in front of your face. THAT is what you need to investigate, and not his e-mail accounts etc.
You'll only possibly find outcomes there, and not the causes.

[tenni]

Hasty
If you have been reading this site, you have a clue that bisexual men have a wide range of behaviours and needs.
If above all else, you want a monogamous relationship and you want your bisexual partner to be happy, you may be up against the wall of a lost effort.

If you believe that he is not being honest with you, that is complex. He thinks that he can not disclose his inner thoughts to you without being threatened. You feel threatened by his behaviour and what you perceive as dishonesty. I know that other women and hetero husbands have been able to become accepting of their bisexual partner.

You already know that he is bisexual. If you want to know when he is having sex with men, I think that you do but why is your interaction not working?

Why is it so important to you that he not have sex with other men? Do you believe that he does not love you if he has sex with a man? Disease? Can you come up with some rules /boundary that you can accept about having sex with men? Or do you fear that he won't honestly agree to them?

[Long Duck Dong]

Ok tenni and gearbox, what's the answer? How have you dealt with insecurities on your relationships? What do you do when your partner, who you believe you are having a monogamous relationship with, is acting suspiciously and has changed their behaviour and denies that there is anything to discuss? Maybe they're both wrong in this scenario so what's the right thing? This is an honest question, I really want to know what I can expect from my relationship with my bisexual man, is it inevitable he will cheat on me? If he does do I have to forgive and ignore because he's bisexual? Do I have the right to find out?

I have been in relationships where I have been cheated on.... and to be simply and bluntly honest, every time the attitude of the cheater, has been one of selfishness and a narrow point of view about how their wants, needs and desires are of more importance and value than the relationship that they also want, with all of the benefits...

the wants, needs and desires of a bisexual are a valid and legit issue.... but the excuses used to justify their actions, rely on their ability to blame their partner for their actions..... " I am sorry dear, but I had to cheat as you would not understand about something that I never talked to you about or gave you the option to express your opinion about it, therefore I am right and you are wrong ".... or in my case, it was more simply put to me as as " get over it, you can not stop me, I will fuck who ever I want "

hasty, many partners are not left with a choice or a option... its never given to them in the first place, yet the choice to cheat and have sex with others, is exercised by the cheater, whom will be quick to argue that they had no choice..... " I am sorry dear, I have no other option than to go to church and have sex with the priest behind your back and then lie to you about it as you gave me no choice because I decided that you will not be happy about it and react adversely "....

each people is going to deal with their own securities in their own way..... and for me, it was easier to be honest and up front with my current partner from the start about who and what I was, rather than build a relationship and then rip the carpet out from under her feet....so its dealt with most of the insecurities but there are some that will forever remain....

do you have to forgive and forget ? no... nobody has to, but the world is full of people that will tell you what you should be doing, for the benefit of the other persons peace of mind, not yours, as you are being regarded as a monogamous minded person, therefore you are selfish, possessive and not considering the need of your partner to have random sex with strangers..... and will your partner cheat ? well, its impossible to say, but be sure of one thing, you never held a gun to his head and forced him to have sex with other people, he made that choice when he chooses to cheat and betray your trust......

drugstore is correct,... bisexuality and monogamy can co exist for some people, for others they can not.... only you and your partner know for sure if your relationship may or may not work and what would it would take to make it work.....but one things for sure, you are not responsible for what your partner does with their dick, they are, in the same way that your heterosexual desires do not *force * you to go out and have sex with other males.....

[hasty1]

Thank you so much for the common sense LDD.

I already know for my own relationship that these are not issues that concern us, it concerns me however that someone who only knows me only through my posts, and my partner not at all, can state that I can expect cheating from him. He's a unique and wonderful individual, and although there have been wobbly moments they have all come from me and not understanding that he's an honest man and true to his word. You see I have experienced cheating before, but at the time my marriage was to all intents and purposes over and I didn't care, rather hoped he would leave me for her! It gave me an interesting viewpoint to observe a cheating man, the selfishness and the casualness with which it was done. Of course when he realised I knew it all came to an end but it we were all but done by then. Interesting that he still wanted me and our family, and was devastated when we left, he just thought it was okay to take what extra he wanted.

My questions regarding me and my relationship were hypothetical, I don't 'demand' anything of my partner, I wonder what I said that would make someone think that I dictate our relationship? We have talked about things at length and we have agreed boundaries and I trust him to keep to them. Anything outside that agreement would be considered cheating by both of us. I don't 'have' to reject monogamy as gearbox says, my partner and I have agreed an alternative but I don't 'have' to do anything. Setting boundaries is a great idea, for most people the marriage contract is their template, for people like us a different model may be required, but stepping outside that is cheating. Neither tenni or gearbox answered the question of what they would do if they they were in a position of possibly being cheated on. Would they take steps to find out? Would they end the relationship on the suspicion? When you have years invested in a relationship it's not an easy question to deal with.

One thing I do know is that if I had found this site at a time when I was deeply insecure about our relationship and what it meant for us, reading posts that suggest bisexual men have needs that trump their parters, and their partners just had to accept it, may (probably would) have made me feel even more insecure, I may have even left him. Not a good outcome for the bisexual man in this scenario, as there are other factors that make us a strong couple and a good match. I don't doubt that tenni and gearbox are sincere, and that their particular moral compass works for them, but it may not work for all.

[elian]

Not all of us believe that bisexual men have all of the say in a relationship hasty, they have about half of the say, or even less if children are involved.. Some people can make it work, and some can't. Do you stay in a relationship where both of you are so miserable that you rip each other apart?

Men are used to just taking what they want, most of us have been trained to be aggressive and act on what we want because if we don't take it, someone else will. They don't really know any better until you present them with the other point of view. I had to read a few books just to be able to see the start of the difference between the way men and women perceive the world. Reading about it doesn't make it any easier, but at least I have 1/16th of a clue now.

It is interesting that some people theorize male homophobia is based on the hatred of women in our male-dominated society. I don't always get this hatred because it's not like every man doesn't have a mother. Maybe Sigmund Fraud was right? Perhaps men do harbor subconscious angst against their mothers? (tries to imagine a world without "gender") Or maybe you are right and it is simply a case of being selfish. If you've never experienced the pain of breaking up a relationship that way, you don't know what it feels like so "sellfishness" is possible too.

[darkeyes]

Interesting debate.. one which we have had in various forms over the years..... peeps cheat cos they want to.. many go out and do it for no other reason than they want sex with other than the person with whom they are married/partnered.. go out.. quite deliberately with that intention... they go out quite deliberately with the aim of getting laid, but it isn't that the wife/husband will not understand them at all.. often God help a cheater's wife/husband/partner if they shud even think of nipping out for a quikkie or to get laid by a 3rd party... ther is often a smidge of hypocrisy about it.. peeps go out and get laid and cheat cos the last thing they want is even giving ther partner an excuse to think of having it away outside of the relationship.. it isn't just male bisexuals prone to this.. all sexualities and both genders are.. I make no comment on whether men or women are the worst of the two genders at this but I have me own opinion... no I do not say every man or woman is so shud they cheat for that isn't the case.. but many.. maybe even most are.. but that is quite a contentious thing to say and it is not a claim I could make with any certainty.

Peeps also cheat just cos the opportunity arose and someone walked into ther line of vision who they fancied strongly... or circumstance made it possible.. lil too much plonk.. a heady atmosphere... even peer pressure from m8s make them cheat... it is impulsive.. not planned but circumstance and human desire make it happen.. plus of course a fair ole dollop of lack of control. Few of us are entirely in control of every aspect of our lives and of our essence.. sometimes we just do something considered out of character because it seemed rite at the time. We wanted it.. needed... and so we thump someone, or cause an argument, or stay off work, miss an appointment.. or we get ourselves laid by someone not our husband, wife or partner... we are human and full of human failing... arguably the world over, there is more infidelity than fidelity even in the most macho male oriented and religious societies.. which begs the question.. are we meant to be monogamous? Or are we conditioned to accept monogamy as the right thing because of the power that historically religion or state and men in particular have had over women, and now that in the west at least bisexuality and homosexuality are much more accepted, that those who scream about cheating in the lgbt world have bought the norm of str8 society and transposed it to the queer?? I don't know the answer to that but do think about it a great deal...

When it comes to cheating, Gear.. the obvious solution u offer does avoid trauma, maybe.. unless the naughty boy or girl gets rumbled and then the arguments and heartache begin... or of course unless the little woman or even the little man suddenly find themselves with a dose of the clap or worse and can't explain why.... and having known at least one relationship where the unfaithful man turned the tables on his (completely faithful) wife and blamed her "infidelities" for the nasty little pox he contracted, sometimes the obvious solution has some really nasty, unseen and quite unforgiving and unforgivable consequences... no doubt there r women who do same so I am not making either gender out 2 b better than t'otha...

God knows, I have cheated and am not so very proud of it... I am no paragon of virtue.. there is no easy solution to the question of monogamy or polygamy/polyamory.. to fidelity or cheating... no easy solutions to overcoming people's own prejudices.. whether it be homosexuality or bisexuality or any other sexuality, human beings are so complex, no matter what we believe we are likely in given circumstances to do things we would not otherwise do.. and then we begin to justify it to ourselves often by blaming the other partner in our relationship.. we, each of us, have to find our own way and deal with it as best we can. Having a completely open polyamorous lifestyle makes sense to me but not to my partner among millions of others... it isn't an easy thing to resolve, and I'm not sure we shall ever entirely. It would help if we went into relationships with open eyes and complete honesty and many do... but even in such relationships there often comes a point when the possessiveness of one begins to impinge on the freedom of the other... a previously agreed freedom. Possessiveness is what monogamy is about.. and so ingrained is it in the human psyche after millenia of indoctrination that even those of us who are free and liberal sexually and think we have dismissed that indoctrination into the rubbish bin, we find we are not as free and liberal as we believed ourselves to be when we find our partner getting down to some free and liberal sex with someone who is not us....

Tenni, has often made the claim that bisexual people, especially men have needs wich make them special.. or ther sexuality special.. I have always argued this point cos as individuals we r all special and whether heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual we all have sexual needs wich may encourage any of us to break out of the trap of monogamy and dabble elsewhere... some of us are capable of staying monogamous.. some r not... irrespective of sexuality or gender... Duckie argues the holier than thou stance which is right from a certain point of view, yet is of help to no-one.. we should all be so perfect...

...and as I have never been able easily to condemn a person for being unfaithful, (and neither would I ever condone it), I find it difficult to condemn a person for doing what they can to find out just wot ther partner is up 2... I don't encourage those in monogamous relationships to be unfaithful, but neither can I find it in my heart to condemn those in such relationships for snooping shud they have gud reason 2 suspect ther partner of being naughty boy or girl...it wud have been wiser not to enter into a monogamous relationship at all, but having done so under a certain set of understandings and agreements, when doubt exists as 2 one or otha partner sticking 2 those understandings and agreements then I find it understandable that people snoop, espesh if one partner will simply not discuss it or denies that anything has changed... better that they didn't enter monogamous relationships, but its how peeps r... if I was suspicious of my partner for being for instance a mass murderer or doing anything contrary 2 my sense of right and wrong what am I to do? It is at least arguable that if she changed how she acted and her routine, that a certain amount of detective work wud b necessary... or... as a friend of mine (who had 2 kids) found once... her partner was selling their home out from under them so he cud bugger off out of the relationship.. she knew little till he just upped and went and told her he had sold the bloody house and she had 30 days to vacate and find a new home for herself and the kids... she didnt snoop... but she knew summat wos up and asked.. got nothing out of him and brooded.. and ended up out on street with 2 kids...maybe hun, she shud have snooped a little dontcha think?

There is no black and white in relationships..not real relationships.. the various shades of grey predominate because human beings are such complex creatures... we are selfish and we are also compassionate and caring yet often we act as if we simply dont give a sod and do our thing for a myriad of reasons and then we attempt to justify what we have done to ourselves and if caught out, either we clam up, lie or attempt to justify our selfishness to a partner....Nothing is simple.. but those of us who cheat or have cheated should do one thing.. we should not shove the blame onto our partner and talk about not being understood.. or, no matter their gender or orientation, that we have needs that they cannot supply,,, we have needs sure... and we want to sate them.. we do it because we want to.. we may be driven to it, but it is not our partner who drives us to it.. it is ourselves...

[Gearbox]

Thank you so much for the common sense LDD.

I already know for my own relationship that these are not issues that concern us, it concerns me however that someone who only knows me only through my posts, and my partner not at all, can state that I can expect cheating from him. He's a unique and wonderful individual, and although there have been wobbly moments they have all come from me and not understanding that he's an honest man and true to his word. You see I have experienced cheating before, but at the time my marriage was to all intents and purposes over and I didn't care, rather hoped he would leave me for her! It gave me an interesting viewpoint to observe a cheating man, the selfishness and the casualness with which it was done. Of course when he realised I knew it all came to an end but it we were all but done by then. Interesting that he still wanted me and our family, and was devastated when we left, he just thought it was okay to take what extra he wanted.

My questions regarding me and my relationship were hypothetical, I don't 'demand' anything of my partner, I wonder what I said that would make someone think that I dictate our relationship? We have talked about things at length and we have agreed boundaries and I trust him to keep to them. Anything outside that agreement would be considered cheating by both of us. I don't 'have' to reject monogamy as gearbox says, my partner and I have agreed an alternative but I don't 'have' to do anything. Setting boundaries is a great idea, for most people the marriage contract is their template, for people like us a different model may be required, but stepping outside that is cheating. Neither tenni or gearbox answered the question of what they would do if they they were in a position of possibly being cheated on. Would they take steps to find out? Would they end the relationship on the suspicion? When you have years invested in a relationship it's not an easy question to deal with.

One thing I do know is that if I had found this site at a time when I was deeply insecure about our relationship and what it meant for us, reading posts that suggest bisexual men have needs that trump their parters, and their partners just had to accept it, may (probably would) have made me feel even more insecure, I may have even left him. Not a good outcome for the bisexual man in this scenario, as there are other factors that make us a strong couple and a good match. I don't doubt that tenni and gearbox are sincere, and that their particular moral compass works for them, but it may not work for all.
Ok so you didn't like the honest answers to your honest questions. Any need to go into denial mode?

This is what you posted -
This is an honest question, I really want to know what I can expect from my relationship with my bisexual man, is it inevitable he will cheat on me?
This is what I get for answering you -
these are not issues that concern us, it concerns me however that someone who only knows me only through my posts, and my partner not at all, can state that I can expect cheating from him.
You now claim that your questions are hypothetical and that you and your husband are a perfect couple in a perfect relationship. But since you have joined here you have continually posted about how you are attempting to ALLOW your husband to act on his bisexual urges and have sex with a man, and that your insecurities are making that very difficult for you.
That is where anybody who has ever read your posts will get the idea that you have issues and that YOU dictate the boundaries of your relationship.
My replies may have made you more insecure, but that is what YOU asked for.

To answer your question in a more direct way - I would NOT be in a position of being cheated on. That isn't something that's possible. Like I explained already, I have never put sexual exclusive restraints on partners for them to break.
I would not snoop into their e-males and phones either! Would you do that?

If you and the lovely LDD want to talk about selfishness in relationships and 'moral compasses', that would be fine by me. If either of you can stick to one version of 'honesty' for more than two posts that would be much appreciated too.

[tenni]

“Neither tenni or gearbox answered the question of what they would do if they they were in a position of possibly being cheated on. Would they take steps to find out? Would they end the relationship on the suspicion? When you have years invested in a relationship it's not an easy question to deal with. “


Did you actually ask this question? Sorry, I did not get that this was significant to you.

I have been cheated on by a woman. I did not go snooping Did I end the relationship because of the cheating? No, I did not. Unfortunately, we could not meet each other’s needs and our communication failed. I still have feelings for this woman many years later but I know that our needs are not aligned. We are better apart.

This idea that a bisexual’s needs trumps their partners is interesting message that you seem to be getting. It is not intended to be a message from me. Reverse it and do you believe that a hetero’s needs trump a bisexual’s needs?

Hasty you did not answer my question about why it is so important that a bisexual man not have sex with another man? If you can not find boundary rules that work for both of you, then your relationship may not be worth keeping. One’s needs should not trump the other.

Yes a bisexual can be monogamous but not all bisexuals will be happy being monogamous. Those of us like bityme and Realist state this as well as Gear and myself. If the person is an intersexed asexual he will have few struggles with wanting to have physical sex with anyone. If he is more same sex attraction bisexual then he may not have needs for sex with a woman. It may not be common sense as much as no need sense.

Now, Hasty this thread is not about you and your insecurities about being a hetero monogamist with a bi husband. Start your own thread about your insecurities and how you would have left your husband if you read bisexuals honestly posting on a bisexual thread and it upset you.

[tenni]

What is interesting to me is that how this thread has switched from the questions and pleas /needs of a bisexual man who finds himself feeling that he can not be honest with his hetero partner to the needs of a hetero woman and support for monogamy?

He is not given any support from most because he did not conform to the "good standards" of monosexual monogamist's mainstream beliefs...seems to me. I think that the OP has been treated poorly by fellow bisexuals and monosexuals. He is making mistakes. Perhaps he is being selfish. He seems to be drowning and "we" the good bi.com people are failing him. "We" have diverted his thread pleas to those of a much more worthy hetero monogamist female.

[tenni]

Tenni there's nothing "monosexual" or LOL "mainstream" about being monogamous. Cheating is cheating no matter what the person's gender and/or sexual orientation is.

lol.oh my poor sweet monogamist man. Tell us all about your struggles to resist pussy when you are in a monogamist same sex relationship. How do you deal with your opposite gender urges? Does your same sex partner do a sexy strip tease to convert you back to his cock? Or do you sit there and talk about all the "famous" gay closet cases that you have fucked to get your mind off pussy? Tell us all about the women that you have fucked and their wonderful breasts...pant pant... Tell us about waking up with morning wood dripping because of the hot dream that you had about fucking three woman at a time. How do you cope and get your mind back focused on just one cock?

[hasty1]

Tenni- ver quickly because I'm on my mobile and I do want to reply fully, I did give give the OP some advice, as did some other members, before the thread took this turn. We mostly gave the same advice, honesty and communication. I don't think he's been here in a while.

[hasty1]

Right, I apologise for inviting answers to my questions, I was a little steamed when I wrote the offending post. You can feel like an unwelcome alien in here sometimes, with people insisting that monogamy and bisexuality can't co-exist, that if you're bisexual then all's fair in love and war (essentially) and that being a hetero woman means I can't have an understanding of anything. In the first part of the post I did pose the question of what a they would do if they suspected their partner going beyond whatever boundaries have been set, I was interested to see what the replies would be. It seems to be that gearbox would be sensible enough not to get into the situation in the first place, but that's a bit late for the OP.

gearbox - I have been through a journey since being on this site, and others. Yes, I've been through upset and confused and I've posted honestly here. I have grown and my relationship has benefited. We have been tackling other, more pressing issues at the same time, it has been incredibly challenging for us both and I'm sure my emotional state has been affected by a number of things at different times. I haven't ever debated whether to 'allow' him anything, we discuss between us what we feel will work for us and make agreements. We're currently monogamous but we're expecting that to change in the future, I don't know whether that makes me monogamous or not.

tenni - no, I don't believe that hetero trumps bisexual, I just believe in equal. I'm not sure why you think I think it's important that a bi guy shouldn't have sex with another man. I think people should be honest in their relationships and work out what works for them. If a closeted bisexual leads their partner into believing they are having a monogamous relationship then that's exactly what they should be having. I think that monogamy is more of a choice, albeit one that we are historically conditioned with, than sexuality, and doesn't necessarily not correlate with bisexuality. My partner and I have agreed to a non-monogamous relationship in the future, but currently we are monogamous, mostly his choice. We're working it through.

Yes, this thread got diverted from the original topic, to which the OP did get some replies with good advice, I hope he saw them and is working through his problems.

[tenni]

.."“Tenni, has often made the claim that bisexual people, especially men have needs wich make them special.. or ther sexuality special.. I have always argued this point cos as individuals....................................... . Post 32

Darkeyes Sweeheart ;)

I don’t know if I have actually written that bimen are “special”. I have read others interpreting/trying to place this word "special" in my typing hand.

Are bisexuals different from monosexuals? YES

Are bisexuals different with different needs when compared to monosexuals? YES.

Are bisexuals the best suited of all sexualities for monogamy? NOPE.....the least suited for monogamy.

Yes Darkeyes...we are all special in some way which makes none of us special ..except unicorns now that's special ;)

Now, I will just take my accused homophobic biphobic self out for a Guinness :) I should invite druggie my lovely monogamous part of a same sex couple who fuck a woman together and somehow are still working hard at a monogamous relationship with a man.

[elian]

I have always maintained that a relationship is a partnership - the needs of all of the partners (or in the case where raising young children is involvedthe whole family) must be taken into consideration. When we answer these threads the answer is always inevitably one sided because we usually only have the perspective of one of the partners. I am beating up on men because there IS a double standard in society but I think it is slowly eroding as women find more sexual freedom. My only complaint is that people who don't really want children somehow neglect to use condoms but anyway..

I do have sympathy and empathy for men and women who didn't know they were bisexual before they got married, there are no easy answers. If possible it is best to be honest (but not necessarily blunt).

[darkeyes]

Tenni what makes you think or believe you're some sort of expert to speak for every bisexual man or woman or claim that we can't be monogamous or are the "Worst suited for monogamy"? :rolleyes:
To be fair to him, I don't think tenni has ever said that bi peeps can't be monogamous.. I think he does believe that it is an unwise and extremely difficult thing for them to attempt... and it is an argument with some validity.. whether it is worst suited to monogamy is a valid point of view even if I don't think that bisexuals are more or less likely to live monogamously than str8 or gay peeps.. he has never said that they can't live monogamously ..but he does think they make a mistake by doing so and if I read him correctly, that they deny a part of their very being and sell themselves short if they do. It is actually a very difficult thing for any human being to attempt no matter his or her sexuality and I have never been convinced that simply by being bisexual and attracted to both genders. that it is easier or more difficult to be monogamous than those of us who are attracted to one. We are far more complex creatures than that.

[darkeyes]

U sound strangely familiar Davie boy.. read one or 2 other posts of yours and u sounded even more familiar.. o dear... sum peep will nev leave it alone...:(

[tenni]

David
Ah, as Darkeyes states quite accurately she has covered my belief about "SOME" bisexuals and the struggle that some bisexuals have with monogamy. You are "new" or "renewed" in your posts here. I am not the only bisexual on this site who believes that some bisexuals are not suited for monogamy. Some bisexuals are happy being monogamous. This supports the perspective that bisexuality is not one but several sexualities or sub groups(not just something on the Kinsey scale but actually diffferent groups of sexuality). You just have to go through the threads, sleep with a bunch of bisexual men ..(mypersonal and preferred scientific method :love87:.) in order to see that monogamy is not the easiest thing to do for many many biseuxals. It is not our default mode. We should not be forced to feel bad for being this way either. Gays & heteros may have problems with it but you can bet your cum soaked shorts that many bisexuals struggle.

Now, how is this biphobic? It is truth from several people's views who are bisexual. Look at threads about biguys cheating on their hetero wives because they can not/will not disclose out of shame for wanting both genders. You seem ashamed that some bisexuals do not live a monogamous life...talk about biphobic..:yikes2: Some biguys who have argued your position are perhaps closer to monosexuality than other bisexuals and we embarrass your type of bisexual by not being monogamous? We're the slutty ones and you are well more "normal" in your mind...or so others have argued. Argue all you want about how there are bisexual who are monogamous...true..but no one has stats to prove anything about how many bisexuals who are monogamous are happy.

There are stats about bisexuals who are depressed though. Read research dude. Bisexual women have the highest rate of suicide thoughts and depression followed by bisexual men far more than gay/lesbians and much more so that heteros. Why?

* gets off soapbox.

[Gearbox]

You can feel like an unwelcome alien in here sometimes, with people insisting that monogamy and bisexuality can't co-exist, that if you're bisexual then all's fair in love and war (essentially) and that being a hetero woman means I can't have an understanding of anything.
You have heard from SOME bisexual husbands that cheating was inevitable for THEM! Also that for some who do cheat, there are understandable reasons for it.
There's no condoning of it! Just a recognition of there being reasons.
Taking a 'Bisexuals have it real good' stance on that shows that you have little understanding of what its like for those bisexuals. If you think about it, there is no other site on the net where you can learn about why some cheat (that I know of). There are plenty of partners of any gender and sexuality cheating, but at least here the bi's are open about it.
They do NOT need judgments! That will only put them off expressing their reasons. It might not be comfortable for many to read, but where else are you going to get that info?

[tenni]

If a man wants to be closeted and cheat it's not my problem but it is cowardly and it will only come back to bite them in the ass since eventually they will get caught. Life is not easy for anyone of any gender or sexual orientation, and people of all genders, sexual orientations, and ages get depressed and some kill themselves for any number of reasons. I do not believe studies or research as the data and results can be easily manipulated to show any outcome. Either way the oppression Olympics that you're going on about and all the whining is not going to do any good at all.

True
However, you asked about what makes me think that I know..etc. You come with your perspective. Stats indicate that bisexuals do have it worse than monosuexlas (gays and heteros). Transsexuals excluded as that is gender issues and not sexuality issues.

You refer to bisexual men as cowardly for not disclosing. Perhaps you have examined the consequences and stats on the results of such disclosure. (I think that it is 60 +% of marriages tend to fail after two years after a bisexual discloses their sexuality is a stat). How do your postings make the monosexual world easier for bisexual men? How do your postings help people on this site? What are your positive suggestions to help the OP now?

[darkeyes]

True
However, you asked about what makes me think that I know..etc. You come with your perspective. Stats indicate that bisexuals do have it worse than monosuexlas (gays and heteros). Transsexuals excluded as that is gender issues and not sexuality issues.

You refer to bisexual men as cowardly for not disclosing. Perhaps you have examined the consequences and stats on the results of such disclosure. (I think that it is 60 +% of marriages tend to fail after two years after a bisexual discloses their sexuality is a stat). How do your postings make the monosexual world easier for bisexual men? How do your postings help people on this site? What are your positive suggestions to help the OP now?
David as usual in his many posts and almost as many guises has no understanding of reality. It would be luffly if peeps could just tell their partners all but millennia of conditioning by religion and society make it difficult.. just what are bi people to do knowing the prejudice that lurks out there, and knowing just what may happen should they tell husband or wife their true nature? A nature which may have crept up on them and about which they had no inkling until of late? Many who are gay, lesbian or bisexual do love their heterosexual partner and it is extremely difficult to admit to what they are fearing loss and even exposure generally, humiliation and even a career's end... even in this day and age with equal opportunities and anti discrimination law on the statute books, bigots can find ways around them. Many sacrifice their own sexuality because they care so deeply for wife and family...not all fuck around. Many stay closeted and unhappy, monogamous in reality as well as officially... many do stray because they are drawn to it and can't help themselves.. if everyone came out the world would be a better place and barriers would break down more quickly.. but at the cost of so many unhappy people, miserable people, and not just the bisexual or gay amongst us.. their spouses, children and other family and friends... we must consider reality.. dimwits don't...

[Annika L]

I find the difference between this site and some others fascinating. People dealing with coming out or being outed (or any of a variety of issues, really) receive compassion, support, constructive advice, lessons-learned, etc., on other sexuality-related sites. On this site, they get judgement, controversy, and often outright attack, to the extent that any support is lost in the shuffle.

It's small wonder that we have so few support threads, compared to the size of the "community".

I wonder if there's something about this place that attracts thoughtlessness and bile...or are we just lucky?

[jamieknyc]

I find the difference between this site and some others fascinating. People dealing with coming out or being outed (or any of a variety of issues, really) receive compassion, support, constructive advice, lessons-learned, etc., on other sexuality-related sites. On this site, they get judgement, controversy, and often outright attack, to the extent that any support is lost in the shuffle.

It's small wonder that we have so few support threads, compared to the size of the "community".

I wonder if there's something about this place that attracts thoughtlessness and bile...or are we just lucky?
You're right, Annika, unfortunately a minority of members use the forum to carry out flame wars, or spout their own ideologies or bigotry, while hiding behind a screen name. Wouldn't you love to see some of the judgmental types on here get outed, just for the karma?

[void()]

Cheating is cheating no matter what the person's gender and/or sexual orientation is.

I agree with this statement and sentiment. If someone becomes engaged in a relationship or relationships, they ought to honor that/those relationship/s.


I have always maintained that a relationship is a partnership - the needs of all of the partners (or in the case where raising young children is involved the whole family) must be taken into consideration.

This too is something I agree with. Often it is why I am reticent at times, with both you and my wife. I am granting consideration and room for growth, living for all of us. And sometimes words truly do not function as they need to, or are unable to express the depth of love felt for you both. It can be a bit painful to feel things but not be able to find a way to say them.

Am fortunate and grateful each waking moment for the cosmos finding a way clear you both are in my life. *hugs, smooches*

[tenni]

I agree with your sentiment Annika. Judgemental statements in black and white terms seem inappropriate on a bisexual site. These cheater statements do nothing for bisexuals. Duh..yes cheating is bad It helps no one except those making the statements feel smug. The poor bugger has not been on the site after twenty -four hours of posting.

[darkeyes]

She was writing about how you like to go on about how it's somehow OK for a bisexual man to cheat, how you write homophobic posts, and how you attack and flame people especially new people like you did to that woman from the UK who just wrote questions about bisexuality.
Annika may well have been thinking of tenni when she wrote her post but I have a feeling u weren't too far from her thoughts when she began tapping away at her keyboard... but really the only person who knows the truth of that is Annika herself so I suggest u resist the temptation to tell us all what is in the mind of another..

[void()]

I find the difference between this site and some others fascinating. People dealing with coming out or being outed (or any of a variety of issues, really) receive compassion, support, constructive advice, lessons-learned, etc., on other sexuality-related sites. On this site, they get judgement, controversy, and often outright attack, to the extent that any support is lost in the shuffle.

It's small wonder that we have so few support threads, compared to the size of the "community".

I wonder if there's something about this place that attracts thoughtlessness and bile...or are we just lucky?

As for my own feelings on this issue, I do have empathy and compassion
for people. That noted, I also feel that cheating is not excusable by
one's sexual orientation. I am trying to not conflate two separate
issues which are seen.

Cheating is about betraying an intimate trust which lovers agree upon.
If they've agreed upon being open with one another and being honest,
great! If not then both lovers need to honor that intimate trust. Not
honoring it is clearly not correct, hence wrong.

Being a bisexual/homosexual/transgender person is all well and good.
If that's you, great, more power to you! To me that means you can love
anyone you choose, or don't choose but merely love because you love. I
understand love though to infer trust and intimacy, this further
implies you are able to be open and honest. There should be no need to
cheat.

[hasty1]

I agree void() You have said everything I believe in principle.

Of course real life gets in the way and people do cheat, and I suspect that as long as people cheat then their partners and spouses will snoop. Despite what others have said about me here I do feel empathy for bisexuals who find themselves for whatever reason torn between a rock and a hard place, and can even see the flawed logic that might lead them to cheat, but I can't understand how someone can do it without considering the consequences, for themselves and their partners if found out and being unprepared for it. The reasons for this probably vary, perhaps arrogance or denial but faced with the truth coming out I don't think that being bisexual is a valid reason for the choice of cheating. Yes, by definition I am a monosexual, but it occurs to me that bisexuals probably form the majority of their relationships with monosexuals, you can't really separate us that way. Us monosexuals who love our bisexual partners and want to make our relationships work may find our way to this site to learn and understand or ask questions and deserve the same respect and understanding as anyone else coming here. Bisexuality affects my life too, that's why I'm here.

[hasty1]

void() - Posted, then ran a nice hot bath to have a nice long soak in some bubbles, then realised that my whole post above could be construed as though I was talking to you. Only the first line was specifically to you, the rest is open. Fastest bath I've had in a long time!

[Gearbox]

As for my own feelings on this issue, I do have empathy and compassion
for people. That noted, I also feel that cheating is not excusable by
one's sexual orientation. I am trying to not conflate two separate
issues which are seen.

Cheating is about betraying an intimate trust which lovers agree upon.
If they've agreed upon being open with one another and being honest,
great! If not then both lovers need to honor that intimate trust. Not
honoring it is clearly not correct, hence wrong.

Being a bisexual/homosexual/transgender person is all well and good.
If that's you, great, more power to you! To me that means you can love
anyone you choose, or don't choose but merely love because you love. I
understand love though to infer trust and intimacy, this further
implies you are able to be open and honest. There should be no need to
cheat.
Where on this entire forum do you read bisexuals saying that it is right to cheat? (Including the bisexuals who DO cheat)
It sounds like you are protesting against it. Where is it?

[void()]

Where on this entire forum do you read bisexuals saying that it is right to cheat? (Including the bisexuals who DO cheat)
It sounds like you are protesting against it. Where is it?

Perhaps no one has directly said it. The implications of it are present though.
Sentiment seems that if you are bi, it grants you a free pass because you
can't be bothered to honor a commitment. I don't agree with that.

And it does seem that some believe it, even if it goes unsaid here. I can
be empathetic, sure. For myself though the notion of cheating is just out
of bounds. Even if my wife desired me to not be with elian, I'd make the
relationship with her work, she's my wife and that's a commitment agreed
upon.

If it sounds as though I'm saying being bisexual does not excuse one
from being decent and moral, you're on spot. I'm tired of seeing a
negative stereotype against any group of people. We're all people and
we all need to be more compassionate of that. Aside, we all also need
to be respectable and decent. And yes it can be done.

[Gearbox]

Perhaps no one has directly said it. The implications of it are present though.
Sentiment seems that if you are bi, it grants you a free pass because you
can't be bothered to honor a commitment. I don't agree with that.

And it does seem that some believe it, even if it goes unsaid here. I can
be empathetic, sure. For myself though the notion of cheating is just out
of bounds. Even if my wife desired me to not be with elian, I'd make the
relationship with her work, she's my wife and that's a commitment agreed
upon.

If it sounds as though I'm saying being bisexual does not excuse one
from being decent and moral, you're on spot. I'm tired of seeing a
negative stereotype against any group of people. We're all people and
we all need to be more compassionate of that. Aside, we all also need
to be respectable and decent. And yes it can be done.
Ok I'm trying to work out how somebody implies that their bisexuality gives them a free pass to cheat without stating it. How do they do that?
In my observation that has always been directly accused of bisexuals, and not admitted or expressed by the cheating bisexuals themselves.

Its like a game of Chinese Whispers where one will state that just coz a dog has got teeth, it doesn't justify it biting people....and soon there's a group of people agreeing and steering clear of the dangerous dog coz it bites for no reason at all at any moment and THAT is damn scary and evil etc!:eek2:
No compassion for it, just blind judgments.

[void()]

Ok I'm trying to work out how somebody implies that their bisexuality gives them a free pass to cheat without stating it. How do they do that?
In my observation that has always been directly accused of bisexuals, and not admitted or expressed by the cheating bisexuals themselves.

Its like a game of Chinese Whispers where one will state that just coz a dog has got teeth, it doesn't justify it biting people....and soon there's a group of people agreeing and steering clear of the dangerous dog coz it bites for no reason at all at any moment and THAT is damn scary and evil etc!:eek2:
No compassion for it, just blind judgments.

Recall some time ago when there was a guy writer whom had been caught
cheating? I spoke up against cheating, to be met with outcries of me not
being empathetic or compassionate. Tried explaining it was not an
issue with the person, their sexuality but their actions in cheating
which I disagreed with. Again, there was a flood of an expression from
many on here.

What was expressed was that I ought to keep my trap shut because
apparently I didn't understand. I could not possibly understand what
it was to be a bisexual man with a wife whom forbade external
relationships. Well, for the first five years of our thirteen year
marriage here, my wife did forbid. But "oh no, you can't understand
and you're conflating the issues, picking on him because he's
bisexual."

How bloody stupid does that sound? I mean really, me another bisexual
guy picking on another bisexual guy? What the ruddy 'ell would I gain
from it? Not a damn thing. And as I tried stating then and now, I have
no issue directly with the person but the cheating. There are more and
more threads by many various handles on here, all espousing that in
some sense or other it's fine to cheat if you're bi, being bi excuses
you.

Tenni is but one example. No he's not directly said as much. He argues
that monogamy is difficult as a bi person. He also says bi folks who
cheat are better off when their loves make a quick exit, that they
could never understand what it was to be bi. It's not an issue of
sexual orientation but one of personal character, morality, dignity.

I guess apparently as I'm bisexual I'm not supposed to be moral at any
given. And that means I can go rob banks, it'll be okay because I can
do it as being bisexual excuses me from jail time for robbing the bank
was an expression of sexual frustration or some tripe.

With that type of prevalent sentiment is it any wonder then, we as
bisexuals are drug through the mud? I ask coming from a lesson learned
as a boy. Act like a whore, get treated like one. Act like a proper
lady or gent, get treated like one. Not all bisexuals think it is okay
to be cheats. Not all of us believe our sexual orientation grants us
liberty to be promiscuous tramps. We don't accept ourselves being
allowed to hurt others simply because we like sex with both flavors.

--

Sorry, this isn't a "blind judgment" rather, it's a well thought
expression of a feeling and line of thought which has smoldered quite
a while. As others seem able to express a differing feeling, thoughts
regarding cheating, so to I ought to be able to express my own feeling
and thought.

I grow weary of many suggesting I could or do not understand, or
conflate the issues. I think I am very clear, understand well enough.
Simply because one may have some difficulty with emotions does not
mean they are a complete invalid. And so it's an expression of two
frustrations, yet the two are not conflated.

I feel cheating is not moral no matter your sexual orientation, clear
enough. Secondly, I feel frustrated due to many thinking I don't
understand such issues. I set the frustration aside to express my
feeling against cheating, it's not about anyone personally, but about
the issue. It is an issue which reflects upon all whom are bisexual.
That means it's an issue open to discussion here.

So what's the boggle?

[Gearbox]

So what's the boggle?
The boggle is that you are protesting against a belief that you have no real idea if it exists or not. You only have implied second hand hearsay and blatant propaganda to go on. Nobody has told you that they as a bisexual feels it is a reason to cheat in itself.
That is what's called 'Blind Judgement'.

You have successfully propagated the myth that cheating bisexuals (in particular) have no reason to cheat other than being bisexual. That puts those cheating bisexuals in a lower class to cheaters of another sexuality, who apparently don't use their sexuality as an excuse to cheat. That kind of cheater apparently has more 'valid reasons'?
Are you quite sure you have thought that out?

How do you manage to elect Tenni as an example of how some bisexuals believe it is ok for bisexuals to cheat due to being bisexual, when at the same time state that he hasn't said any such thing?:confused:
That's another boggle! You even state his completely different opinions, yet here you are electing him as spokesperson for 'bisexual immorality', and accusing that as why bisexuality get dragged through the mud!
You obviously understand that monogamy is not good, nor even healthy for some bisexuals, but that is not the same as saying it's ok for bisexuals to cheat. THAT is completely different.
Its also not good nor healthy for some of other sexualities to be monogamous. But its amazing how when THEY cheat, their sexuality doesn't get dragged through the mud. When a bisexual cheats, its apparently ok to condemn them on sexuality grounds. We get that a lot here.

You may not experience the avalanche of assumptions about bisexuality that a single bi person gets from potential partners etc. They often think that its in a bi's nature to cheat.
That has nothing to do with all the bisexuals who cheat! It has everything to do with the myths that get passed around that some bisexuals believe that bisexuality is a reason to cheat.
That is what you are doing! You are enforcing that opinion of bisexuality by protesting about it. If you protest about it, then it must be something real.
Its not real! If it were, we'd all cheat.

[tenni]

“Tenni is one. No he has not said as much but…” post 60


Void
If I do not write it, then do not falsely connect the two (cheating and me). I do not understand your linking me to an idea that bisexuals are better off when their love makes a quick exit. That is just not even my language style let alone my meaning. I try not to post in “ultimates” such as “all” but prefer to couch my words with “some”. Bisexuality is not a size that seems to fit all. There are tendencies though such as a fluidity aspect and I believe that monogamy is not the default mode for many bisexuals. That is it. Neither have much to do with cheating.

As far as bisexuality and morality are concerned, I do not connect the two as far as monogamy is concerned. Morality is a judgement call and those that connect monogamy to morality may be using a monosexual base rather than a bisexual base imo. That is as far as I can figure it out at this point.

I can empathize with those bisexuals who cheat on their partners due to a variety of factors much easier than a monosexual cheating on their partner. Empathezing is not condoning. It is having the ability to understand the grey areas of bisexuality in some situations. Using words like "excusable" seems rather judgemental and quite different from "empathizing", understanding". Why be so judgemental? Just thinking about having same sex is judged by some as "wrong" and immoral.

[elian]

tenni, first of all, I think that is the clearest I have heard you articulate your position in a long time.

There was some insinuation in the thread posts both against cheating and a perception and that the support needs of the bisexual male are not being properly taken into account.

After careful due consideration and the fact that I can't believe this thread has drug on so long I have come to the following learned conclusion:

"Shit Happens"

As I said, waay back there - now is the time for the OP to be honest with both himself and his partner, if he loves her to admit that, the rest of it they are going to have to work out for themselves. If she didn't trust me and I knew I wasn't cheating then I would be upset if the snooping kept going. Perhaps she had a reason to suspect something wasn't right.

Sorry, I don't wish misery on any person but at least now it will be possible to come to a real resolution. Maybe you didn't know you were bi, or didn't want to admit it at the time you knew your girlfriend It may seem bad now but hopefully it will work out for the better. "Better" may mean you stay together or split apart..I'm not sure.

[Gearbox]

Well said, some people here like T, G, and others have posted about how it's OK for bisexual men to cheat on their partner especially if she's a woman. If they want to claim it's OK to cheat that's their choice but it shows a lack of morals and people who say it's OK to cheat or make up excuses for cheating are not the type of people like you and I who make excellent partners, stay in a long term relationship/partnership, and who should just stay single and not date or pursue a relationship with anyone since they'll just cheat.
Oh dear, the whisper has gone a bit more specific now to include misogyny. TF we're not in Salem a while back, and you can see horns & a tail popping out too.:eek2:

[void()]

The boggle is that you are protesting against a belief that you have no real idea if it exists or not. You only have implied second hand hearsay and blatant propaganda to go on. Nobody has told you that they as a bisexual feels it is a reason to cheat in itself.
That is what's called 'Blind Judgement'.

You have successfully propagated the myth that cheating bisexuals (in particular) have no reason to cheat other than being bisexual. That puts those cheating bisexuals in a lower class to cheaters of another sexuality, who apparently don't use their sexuality as an excuse to cheat. That kind of cheater apparently has more 'valid reasons'?
Are you quite sure you have thought that out?

How do you manage to elect Tenni as an example of how some bisexuals believe it is ok for bisexuals to cheat due to being bisexual, when at the same time state that he hasn't said any such thing?:confused:
That's another boggle! You even state his completely different opinions, yet here you are electing him as spokesperson for 'bisexual immorality', and accusing that as why bisexuality get dragged through the mud!
You obviously understand that monogamy is not good, nor even healthy for some bisexuals, but that is not the same as saying it's ok for bisexuals to cheat. THAT is completely different.
Its also not good nor healthy for some of other sexualities to be monogamous. But its amazing how when THEY cheat, their sexuality doesn't get dragged through the mud. When a bisexual cheats, its apparently ok to condemn them on sexuality grounds. We get that a lot here.

You may not experience the avalanche of assumptions about bisexuality that a single bi person gets from potential partners etc. They often think that its in a bi's nature to cheat.
That has nothing to do with all the bisexuals who cheat! It has everything to do with the myths that get passed around that some bisexuals believe that bisexuality is a reason to cheat.
That is what you are doing! You are enforcing that opinion of bisexuality by protesting about it. If you protest about it, then it must be something real.
Its not real! If it were, we'd all cheat.


"The boggle is that you are protesting against a belief that you have
no real idea if it exists or not. You only have implied second hand
hearsay and blatant propaganda to go on. Nobody has told you that they
as a bisexual feels it is a reason to cheat in itself."

No, they just imply it is easier to understand when bisexuals do it.
This to me reads as condoning a bisexual cheating. Why is it easier to
understand simply because a person is bisexual?

"You have successfully propagated the myth that cheating bisexuals (in
particular) have no reason to cheat other than being bisexual. That
puts those cheating bisexuals in a lower class to cheaters of another
sexuality, who apparently don't use their sexuality as an excuse to
cheat. That kind of cheater apparently has more 'valid reasons'?
Are you quite sure you have thought that out?"

No, I'm saying no one of any sexual orientation has any right to
cheat. If you and someone you love agree to being monogamous then,
there is no reason to cheat. It does not matter about the sexual
orientation.

"How do you manage to elect Tenni as an example of how some bisexuals
believe it is ok for bisexuals to cheat due to being bisexual, when at
the same time state that he hasn't said any such thing?

That's another boggle! You even state his completely different
opinions, yet here you are electing him as spokesperson for 'bisexual
immorality', and accusing that as why bisexuality get dragged through
the mud!"


Tenni is but one example of folks whom posit that is easier to
understand cheating by bisexuals. I am aware that is not saying they
condone it. In my view, it equivocates to condoning. This is my
opinion, my feeling, my thought and I'm aware of that.

I am not attacking tenni, nor bisexuality. I am attacking what I feel,
think and believe to be wrong, the idea of cheating. This is not about
one person, one sexual orientation. Learn to read more fully. I'm
attacking the idea or concept of cheating, not the people, or people
advocating empathy or condoning.

No one has to directly tell me that there is a sentiment on this site
that empathizes with bisexuals who cheat. If I really need that then,
tenni's last post most assuredly presents it. A sentiment is also a
feeling or thought, an idea. I dislike the idea of cheating, no matter
one's sexual orientation. Ergo, I dislike the thought or idea that it
is easier to understand and empathize with bisexuals who cheat.

Sure, I understand we're all human. I get that there are few saints
and angels. I am not saying anyone is perfect, or that I cannot accept
imperfection. I am saying this, cheating is one of the things in life
I see as not being something that's a trivial mistake. It is a rather
serious mistake. It is one I dislike by any orientation.

I suppose you feel it's all fine and dandy that a bi guy could betray
your love. "Oh, I understand why he cheated, he's bisexual. I'll
excuse him."

See my point now? You're granting special treatment to bisexuals. I
don't like that idea. Not when many fight to attain equality. If we
desire equality, we don't take special treatment, especially not for
mistakes.

[void()]

Well said, some people here like T, G, and others have posted about how it's OK for bisexual men to cheat on their partner especially if she's a woman. If they want to claim it's OK to cheat that's their choice but it shows a lack of morals and people who say it's OK to cheat or make up excuses for cheating are not the type of people like you and I who make excellent partners, stay in a long term relationship/partnership, and who should just stay single and not date or pursue a relationship with anyone since they'll just cheat.

Exactly, if you don't feel like being in a long term relationship then, don't engage in one. I wanted to get married when I was 28, felt it was time to actually settle down. My wife whom married me, she faced some insecurities she had for herself regarding my bisexuality. I asked her once if we could be open. She said she needed time to consider it. It took her five years to finally decide that we could be open. In that time I had been hit on a few times but had not acted in response, I was married and I did/do not cheat.

Even now, I do not cheat. I tell her if I'm going to spend time with elian. We make schedule arrangements. Unfortunately, elian has been rather busy lately. I'm hoping to soon have my wife ship me out to spend a week with him. :) But this falls aside from scheduling. "Life, it's what happens while your busy making other plans." -- Lennon

And if she wants to go out with a guy, she does. The point being we communicate with one another. There are no secrets, no betraying of trust, love. Yes, I love elian. Me and he are not exactly exclusive. He's free to see others as he will. I don't get jealous. I just love. :) Sometimes I feign jealousy. But most often both elian and my wife just laugh at me for knowing better. I choose for myself to remain faithful to my wife, and elian.

I do not cheat on either one of them. In my opinion they are both as close to perfect folks as I desire, need. I know that they both would not mind if I found another guy to see. I would let them both know, of course, and be safe as well. But I have no desire for anyone else, and that's my choice. I do not force my choice on either of them. They are both capable adults whom I respect and love. We don't cheat. There's no reason to. She's straight, I think elian is more homosexual than he lets on, though I'll defer to him as bisexual. My wife says I'm more homosexual than I let on too, but I'm for sure about being bisexual. *lol*

But yes, if you don't want long term, don't get into it. And it doesn't matter about your sexual orientation.

[Gearbox]

Tenni is but one example of folks whom posit that is easier to understand cheating by bisexuals. I am aware that is not saying they condone it. In my view, it equivocates to condoning. This is my opinion, my feeling, my thought and I'm aware of that
Now THAT makes it easier to understand why you have those ideas.:)
They are wrong. You know they are wrong. But your feelings about it are enough reason to claim that one is as bad as the other.


I suppose you feel it's all fine and dandy that a bi guy could betray your love. "Oh, I understand why he cheated, he's bisexual. I'll
excuse him."
See my point now? You're granting special treatment to bisexuals. I don't like that idea. Not when many fight to attain equality. If we
desire equality, we don't take special treatment, especially not for mistakes.
Due to you classing two different things as the same thing, I could hardly clear that up. If I say "I understand why some bi's cheat.", you'll read, "I condone bi's cheating especially.".
I also understand why some smoke, eat at Mcdonalds, drink themselves stupid, go bareback, drink & drive, take drugs etc, but I'd expect you to think that I don't condone any of that. I just understand (or try to understand) the reasons why they do it.

Cheaters KNOW they are doing wrong, but they have reasons why they do it. Everything has a reason! Same for you and Drugstore who get the wrong end of the stick coz that's the end you FEEL like taking. It gets you both posting contradictory accusations that you both know are wrong, coz they come from what you FEEL and not reason.
Cheaters FEEL too. They are not monsters, nor evil villains out to cause intentional harm etc. They are just like the many of us who FEEL.......and we all know what can happen to reason when that happens.

[tenni]

Void
As far as I can figure out, I do not understand why it is so important to you that someone else may or may not cheat on their partner? You know that it is also immoral for you to suck cock in some people's minds.

[chapsmccall]

i caught my last gf going thru my cell and she got booted to the curb personal space is just that personal

[darkeyes]

Void
As far as I can figure out, I do not understand why it is so important to you that someone else may or may not cheat on their partner? You know that it is also immoral for you to suck cock in some people's minds.Cant speak for Voidie, Tenni.. but is important 2 me for several reasons... I h8 seeing misery and pain even in peeps I hardly know or don't know.. but in peeps I am close 2 and care for ver much.. it twists in me gut like a knife cos I care for them and it fucking hurts 2 c peeps I care about tearing apart ther lives.... and none of it need have been... but that sadly is the world we live in... and no doubt I will c it and go through that torture again b4 I'm dead an gone......

[void()]

Now THAT makes it easier to understand why you have those ideas.:)
They are wrong. You know they are wrong. But your feelings about it are enough reason to claim that one is as bad as the other.


Due to you classing two different things as the same thing, I could hardly clear that up. If I say "I understand why some bi's cheat.", you'll read, "I condone bi's cheating especially.".
I also understand why some smoke, eat at Mcdonalds, drink themselves stupid, go bareback, drink & drive, take drugs etc, but I'd expect you to think that I don't condone any of that. I just understand (or try to understand) the reasons why they do it.

Cheaters KNOW they are doing wrong, but they have reasons why they do it. Everything has a reason! Same for you and Drugstore who get the wrong end of the stick coz that's the end you FEEL like taking. It gets you both posting contradictory accusations that you both know are wrong, coz they come from what you FEEL and not reason.
Cheaters FEEL too. They are not monsters, nor evil villains out to cause intentional harm etc. They are just like the many of us who FEEL.......and we all know what can happen to reason when that happens.

Yes, reason flies out the window. I did not pretend to post anything but my opinion, feeling.

I understand you and others are not exactly condoning in understanding. I feel you are, but
technically speaking you are not. I very much dislike the sentiment or feeling that many here
seem or feel to be condoning the cheating. No, I cannot merely alter my feeling. I dislike
cheating and think it is wrong, immoral.

As everyone else was posting opinion, I opined as well. That was all I did. And I was
opining against an idea, thought, feeling not any one person or subset of people.

[void()]

Void
As far as I can figure out, I do not understand why it is so important to you that someone else may or may not cheat on their partner? You know that it is also immoral for you to suck cock in some people's minds.

It is important in consideration of others to engage in relationships. If I'm not engaging them, really
not my concern. I want it clear upfront, I don't cheat and will not engage with cheaters. To me
cheating is immoral.

As I expressed to Gear, everyone else here was opining their opinions, figured I'd interject mine.
That's what a freely open public forum is about. I was within the guidelines and rules in my posting.
I was posting my opinion against an idea, thought, feeling.

As to others finding it immoral that I suck cocks, well, they can choose to not engage with me. It's
the same process of me not engaging those whom cheat, simple enough really.<sarcasm> And you know, I will for sure be all up in their faces and abase them for not appreciating me sucking cock. Riiiiiiight! </sarcasm>

Actually it would be quite the opposite. I'd just go find some non-cheating guy whom did like me sucking cock.

So, short answer, it really isn't that important to me. I did feel an urge though to express my opinion, equally, as others seem keen to do. Again, it's a public forum.

Also, I appreciate Fran's view about suffering. Don't really care much to see folks suffer. But hey, just opinion in a public forum.

[Gearbox]

Yes, reason flies out the window. I did not pretend to post anything but my opinion, feeling.

I understand you and others are not exactly condoning in understanding. I feel you are, but
technically speaking you are not. I very much dislike the sentiment or feeling that many here
seem or feel to be condoning the cheating. No, I cannot merely alter my feeling. I dislike
cheating and think it is wrong, immoral.

As everyone else was posting opinion, I opined as well. That was all I did. And I was
opining against an idea, thought, feeling not any one person or subset of people.
I really can't bare the thought of anybody eating kebabs. That doesn't make it immoral to eat a kebab in front of me.lol

The confusion you may get from my views of cheating, is that I view the rules that create cheating to be immoral, so neither cheat nor cheated are moral IMO. The cheater maybe doubly so, but what would you expect after signing up for something that's immoral in the first place?
But I don't (or try not to) judge either to be wicked or sinful etc, just usual people who make usual mistakes like we all do. The cheated AND cheater come here asking for help and/or support coz they both need it.
We can label them moral or immoral if we like, but neither care.

[alittlebendy]

For the record I do love her and she's a "snooper" meaning its her nature to read mail, look through bank statements, and look into drawers and medicine cabinets.

[alittlebendy]

In fact she said when the shit hit the fan "you trust that I'll snoop thriough your stuff" and she admitted that she had many times in the past. More times than I caught her. I was going to tell her about it (no lie) but how does one broach the subject? Its not like "honey I wrecked your car" is it? The question is ethical. Is it right to do somthing mildly illigal (reading someone's mail) to find (not suspect mind you) if somthing someone did was moral?

[void()]

I really can't bare the thought of anybody eating kebabs. That doesn't make it immoral to eat a kebab in front of me.lol

The confusion you may get from my views of cheating, is that I view the rules that create cheating to be immoral, so neither cheat nor cheated are moral IMO. The cheater maybe doubly so, but what would you expect after signing up for something that's immoral in the first place?
But I don't (or try not to) judge either to be wicked or sinful etc, just usual people who make usual mistakes like we all do. The cheated AND cheater come here asking for help and/or support coz they both need it.
We can label them moral or immoral if we like, but neither care.

Which makes it purely ironic and nearly funny if one thinks about it too much. I state an opinion that I don't care beyond being engaged with someone, if they cheat or not. If I engage with them then, yes I will avoid what I consider immoral. To that end it is like some preferring tight arses over full tits. I don't care, not for me to judge beyond engaging with them intimately or not. And they don't care, you say.

So if none of us really care, why all this vitriol over my having an opinion? See how ironic that becomes? I mean really, it's a public forum on the tubes, everyone has opinions. Ironic then, when I state my opinion it seems I'm dubbed a scoundrel. Fine, I'll just remain silent. Enjoy the site I guess.

[Gearbox]

Which makes it purely ironic and nearly funny if one thinks about it too much. I state an opinion that I don't care beyond being engaged with someone, if they cheat or not. If I engage with them then, yes I will avoid what I consider immoral. To that end it is like some preferring tight arses over full tits. I don't care, not for me to judge beyond engaging with them intimately or not. And they don't care, you say.

So if none of us really care, why all this vitriol over my having an opinion? See how ironic that becomes? I mean really, it's a public forum on the tubes, everyone has opinions. Ironic then, when I state my opinion it seems I'm dubbed a scoundrel. Fine, I'll just remain silent. Enjoy the site I guess.
Its when opinions directly misrepresents people that a problem crops up. Of course they are going to protest and ask "Why do you think that of me?" if they don't agree.
Nobody cares if we think them moral or not, but they do care when they are ill treated.

[tenni]

In fact she said when the shit hit the fan "you trust that I'll snoop thriough your stuff" and she admitted that...The question is ethical. Is it right to do somthing mildly illigal (reading someone's mail) to find (not suspect mind you) if somthing someone did was moral?

Well, alittlebendy, I think that you infer the answer to your own question by referring to her snooping as mildly illegal. Is it mildly or a serious immoral act?

The entire invasion of privacy issue is rampant in society today with government, google, etc. making us believe that such invasive approaches are correct to "protect" our safety etc. Overall, have we become accepting that we have no privacy?

You knew that she would snoop through your stuff you post. Did you protest this when you first caught her (before she found that you were hiding your bisexuality and cheating). Maybe you should have kicked her to the curb the first time you caught her cheating (immorally to obtain her goal of knowing more about you) by snooping behaviour of invasion of privacy. Such people need to learn that this is immoral invasion of privacy even in a long term relationship.

It seems clear from the responses that some people on this site consider it not immoral for a partner to invade your privacy. Some even infer that there should be no boundaries of privacy if you are in a relationship(regardless how long)...Hell some give the impression that others (mostly it seems g/f ? :( )should be expected to be immorally invading people's privacy after date 2... :yikes2:..only slight exaggeration. ;)

[darkeyes]

Interesting thing opening our partner's mail and such llike.. no I don't mean the content tho no doubt if naughtiness was going on, opening my partner's mail could well be interesting in quite another way... at home we do not open each other's mail but not because of any privacy issue.. we don't because it is ill-mannered so to do. Technically it would be an illegal act if we did not give our say so to each other to open it.. if either of us are away from home, as I shall be next week on a training course, my mail will be opened by Kate just in case there is something which needs quick attention. .. and we discuss what we receive in the mail anyway for we are neither of us frightened of its content and we do share information.. I don't care if she reads my post first.. neither do I get hot and bothered if, as I do, I ask her to check txt messages should I not be in the room and I hear my fone ping, sing or burp.. and she does the same to me.. in fact neither of us cares much mostly if one is out and the kids are the only one's in the house or room... my fone and my mail are an open book to her as hers is to me...

My journal however is a very personal thing... and I have always been quite protective of its contents... but she has read much of it because she has asked and sometimes I have shown her to show off...... but if she does so she can read any part of it, for any year going back to its beginning almost 20 years ago when I was just a spoilt little girl of 14. The kids however are banned!! And anyone else goes into the locked glass doored cabinet where they sit on pain of death... they are much too personal, and often sexually explicit. they could be a blackmailers joy.and I don't mean blackmailing of me for there are names, often addies and also frequently pics.. not rude pics, at least not really rude pics..... but quite clearly identifiably pics of people who I am sure would be quite unhappy if the contents of my journal fell into the wrong hands.... however Kate doesn't often ask because in them is also my angst.. my stresses.. my fears... the frustrations of my life and she is very uncomfortable with reading many of those... but they are there if she wants to.. she only needs to ask, but we discuss most of those messy things anyway and it is easier for her to hear it and foor us to discuss it than for her to read any of it,, my anguish about her monogamous nature and my own quite different feeling if read can also be a particular bone of contention but as with everything, it is not a taboo subject at home and it does get a reasonably frequent airing...

.. we have shared the odd net password.. but not all, and tbh we don't intend to. Although I suppose we should... we don't intend to mainly because they are passwords to accounts where there is no joint interest and also unlike normal mail, we have easy access to it wherever we happen to be either by fone or by computer... arguably.. if we have no secrets, or have none about which we have fears or reservations about our partner finding out, then really we should give access to all.. that is surely total trust? Yet sometimes there are things we don't want our partner finding out.. these should be little secrets although I admit not always..... like surprises arranged over the net or some such trivia... we need to keep records of some things we don't want our partners to know... not for sinister reasons but simply because until the right time they should not know... and yet, we both have no knowledge of certain of each other's accounts passwords.. this place is one such an example, as are certain e accounts... my work account and her work accounts for example but there are one or two more general...

So we do have sufficient areas where should we if so chose we could snoop.. and secrecy idoes exist n that we do not have access to other areas where possibly each of us may wish to snoop... but not many... and a simple request mostly would open such accounts to each other... but we all know there are other ways of hiding things...either on the net or elsewhere.. but if we trust implicitly.. should there be? Is there any justification for other than possibly work or external in confidence accounts from other organisations in which we are involved and the other is not?

Food for thought...

[hasty1]

Hi alittlebendy

I'm glad your back, it's been a while. I'm wondering how you and your girlfriend are doing? In answer to your question in your last post, in my opinion (for what it's worth) neither snooping or cheating are desirable in a relationship, but trying to claim the moral high ground after being discovered cheating by her snooping won't be particularly helpful. I suspect that you will end up discussing the wrong thing, so, how goes it?

[Gearbox]

Hi alittlebendy

I'm glad your back, it's been a while. I'm wondering how you and your girlfriend are doing? In answer to your question in your last post, in my opinion (for what it's worth) neither snooping or cheating are desirable in a relationship, but trying to claim the moral high ground after being discovered cheating by her snooping won't be particularly helpful. I suspect that you will end up discussing the wrong thing, so, how goes it?
Do you snoop on your husband then Hasty?

[hasty1]

Do you mean my husband, who I left 10 years ago or my current partner? I was with my ex-husband for 24 years and never snooped or cheated. I found out that he was cheating when he took a phone call from her within earshot, from that point on I observed what he did and said, but nothing else. Life with him was hell, I was sexually rejected on an epic scale, and lied to on a daily basis. I never wanted another relationship and was quite happily having nsa sex with whoever I wanted when my partner came into my life.

With my current partner I have to admit I did snoop once, and he was hiding something, just not the thing I thought he was. I told him what I'd done the same day and offered to not come home. To his credit he wanted to talk about it, we had a very frank conversation and he forgave me ,which eventually has led to us being much happier. It's no defence against my actions, but we have been dealing with more than my trust issues and his bisexuality. I have very few privacy issues myself, I've offered to let him see anything he wants, I've nothing to hide and I'm prepared to discuss anything that he feels I've said or done that might be questionable. Even my picture on this site is designed to let him know it's me, he will recognise it from the website we met on.

For what it's worth my last post was simply advice, they both have been wrong, draw a line under it and work out what happens next, don't argue about who did the 'wrongest' thing. (yeah, I know that's not a word, but who cares.

[Gearbox]

I told him what I'd done the same day and offered to not come home.
That was a bit extreme wasn't it?:eek2: You didn't kill his dog or anybody!
Not that snooping is lovely, but confiding in him is.

In my experience of partners who have had really bad previous partners, they tend to be overly cautious and suspicious of you (unless that's just me!lol). They tend to think that you are going to do the same as the bad one. That's not really surprising considering that the bad one was a nice bloke too at the beginning. So being nice is no guarantee!
Its no wonder you have trust issues, but it's a big PLUS that you are open about that! That's the important thing IMO, not what you did. You get help to deal with it.

It would be a nice change to get our stuff out in the open on the third date instead of the usual, "I like trees, charity work, and being lovely....yada yada!". We could have "I got to deal with....yada..yada...yada...and I'm lovely!", instead.:bigrin:
Could save a lot of time and energy. But as you prob know, that's like pulling teeth for most!

[cherry88]

in my opinion (for what it's worth) neither snooping or cheating are desirable in a relationship, but trying to claim the moral high ground after being discovered cheating by her snooping won't be particularly helpful.

hasty1, this was some masterful understatement...... i think its =really= hilarious how some people will claim the right to 'cheat' (or hide bank accounts so your wife wont get your money in a divorce?? now thats some shaky moral ground) but get totally bent out of shape when someone 'snoops'.. as though one is more 'moral' than the other.. maybe snooping bothers them so much because, they have so much to hide!

either way i kind of agree it does appear the op kinda knew his wife was prone to snooping and i often do think peopel leave stuff around in cases like that becuase some part of them wants to get caught.... / i do wonder if that wasnt the case this time. i also agree - at this point, no harm no foul, both of them crossed the line and it wont help arguing about it, what they need to do now is just TALK IT OUT and figiure out what -will- work for them in the future. both crossed the line, both obvously are not communicating honestly, and the productive thing to do at this point is move forward rather than backward.




Do you snoop on your husband then Hasty?

i know this wasnt directed to me but i do have to say im almost 50 years old and somehow ive gotten to this point without ever cheating, or ever snooping..../// on -anyone-, ever..... if i want to find out something about my lover, I ASK THEM. i know, pretty off the wall huh. and as far as i know, i also dont engage with either cheaters, or snoopers.... i dont believe ive ever been cheated on; and i havent ever caught anyone snooping on me. i wouldnt want my partner doing either, if my partner wants to know stuff about me THEY CAN ASK ME. i know, what a mind fuck. i try to live my life so i have nothign to hide.... i really sleep better that way.

for waht its worth i learned my lesson about snooping as a child. when i was a preteen i stumbled onto my mothers diary. i didnt really know what i was doing and read some of it, and it was soooo traumatizing, that i realized that snooping is a slippery slope. often times, when you read stuff that isnt yours to read, you see information you would rather not see. i think that cured me of 'snooping' pretty early on.

also i just hate dishonesty. if i cant ask my partner stuff i need to know, and if they cant ask me stuff they need to know, honestly neither of us are probably capable of maintaining an adult relationship, and should just be single. honestly. im really not kidding. yeah sex is complicated and love is complicated but being a decent human being, how hard is that. really.

[void()]

Nobody cares if we think them moral or not, but they do care when they are ill treated.

Not really ill treatment to not prefer engaging in relationships with cheaters. I am sure
other folks avoid people of color, nationality, religion, shape and so on. It is a matter of
preference and no one seems to feel it treats others ill.

So, no I'm going to feel guilt for having and expressing an opinion, or preference. It does
not matter how much you seem to desire such being the case, not happening. Nor will
I feel wrong, or degraded for having and expressing an opinion or preference.

You obviously have your own opinions and preference/s. I don't see anyone trying
to degrade you for them, or for expressing them in a public forum. Isn't that fairly
peculiar? To me that seems a bit of a double standard.

Not going to pay much heed to it. I know that I stated I'd remain silent. Hard to
do that and not point out clear facts. And so now, ...

[Gearbox]

Not really ill treatment to not prefer engaging in relationships with cheaters. I am sure
other folks avoid people of color, nationality, religion, shape and so on. It is a matter of
preference and no one seems to feel it treats others ill.

So, no I'm going to feel guilt for having and expressing an opinion, or preference. It does
not matter how much you seem to desire such being the case, not happening. Nor will
I feel wrong, or degraded for having and expressing an opinion or preference.

You obviously have your own opinions and preference/s. I don't see anyone trying
to degrade you for them, or for expressing them in a public forum. Isn't that fairly
peculiar? To me that seems a bit of a double standard.

Not going to pay much heed to it. I know that I stated I'd remain silent. Hard to
do that and not point out clear facts. And so now, ...
Nobody asked you to go have a cup of tea with some cheaters, or told you not to express your opinions etc. But when those opinions have a negative effect on others they at lest deserve to know why you have them.
I know why, so no harm done.:)

[Gearbox]

i know this wasnt directed to me but i do have to say im almost 50 years old and somehow ive gotten to this point without ever cheating, or ever snooping..../// on -anyone-, ever....
If I make it to 50 without cheating or snooping, I'm going to have it written in the LGBT Times.:tongue: Not long left now, if we can only resist it for a few more years, there'll be parades and everything.
I'm willing to share the front page if you are?lol

It is a bit tragic that we have to point that out as if it's against the 'norm', but I have to do just that more often than I should. Maybe once or twice with women, but every single time with men.
Reason being - I didn't tell any women that I was bi. Didn't need to. That's prob dishonest in a way, but it had no effect on them so why bother? That's my excuse.
It's a damn good excuse, I found out much later when telling gay men that I'm bi. Suddenly, not a word that comes out of my mouth can be taken for what it is.lol Somehow my sexuality is like Dextor's 'dark passenger', hiding in the background waiting to pounce, and I'm just as much a victim of it as them.:eek2: I expect that I've been snooped on, but don't mind really. Like you, I'd just tell them anyway if there was a prob. I'd like to see them try shutting my gob about it!:rolleyes:

[cherry88]

If I make it to 50 without cheating or snooping, I'm going to have it written in the LGBT Times.:tongue: Not long left now, if we can only resist it for a few more years, there'll be parades and everything.
I'm willing to share the front page if you are?lol

haha! i really didnt want to let this go without answering. i -really- love parades ^^

so yeah im totally into that but only if we can have a huge naked tea party with a whole bunch of cheaters which will usher in a new era of world peace between the nations..... @@ it'll be a historic day... *wiping away tear*


but i mean i know you were joking but the thing is i mean i kind of wanted to clarify that at least in my case its never been a case of resisting...... i mean honestly ive been in several very long term very committed relationships..... ive never once been in a casual relationship..... i dont even really date...// i just dont have any interest in that at all. im a committed person and get off sexually on trust and commitment and depth of emotional connection, rather than variety.... so even though in relationships im often sexually turned on by a variety of people, and fully expect my partner to be, and think thats super normal, ive honestly never even ONE TIME wanted to take it further than that...... especially if my partner wasnt involved. like several times ive been open to threesomes or whatever but that was because my partner was inviolved.. i really cant fathom the concept of -wanting- to be with someone sexually besides the person im with at the time.. ive just never even remotely wanted it. so ive never been in a position to need to resist, its always been not only easy for me, but a total non issue. its slightly harder to resist snooping at times but not really. so neither of those things has ever really been even remotely a struggle for me, i guess i am just lucky??

so i mean, i think whether or not thats the case has a lot to do with what a pereson values sexually. if a person gets off on variety or enjoys many casual relatoinships they will want lots of partners. if a person gets off more on the emotional connection and wants just a few very committed partners, they will be less inclined to want lots of partners.... thats just a guess. im also one of those that tends to have a very small number of very loyal friends as well..... not a huge bunch of loose aquaintances.. i value that in all my relationships. i think its just a personal preference. so i see both approaches as totally valid for different people depending what they value in their life..... im not sure why some people prefer one or the other if its nature or nature or a combination im sure its all that stuff. but sometimes i think its just a true preference, its not always societal conditioning.... i would definitely like to see a world where there was more acceptance of the wide variety of human experience so that nobody felt they had to hide and so that nobody felt what they wanted wasnt an option... :>>

my daughters world is like that... im happy to see it. in her world there is no such thing as 'straight or gay' thats seen as ridiculously limiting. her friends are a wide range of pansexual, asexual, multisexual, transexual, non monagamous, committed but platonic, poly open, poly fidelitous, etc etc etc.... in her world you can sort of make it up as you go. i think thats just perfect. the one constant is, they all value honesty. in a world like that theres no need to be dishonest.



It is a bit tragic that we have to point that out as if it's against the 'norm', but I have to do just that more often than I should. Maybe once or twice with women, but every single time with men.
Reason being - I didn't tell any women that I was bi. Didn't need to. That's prob dishonest in a way, but it had no effect on them so why bother? That's my excuse.

hmmm ok well i spent a lot of time thinking about this stuf.. i can understand this and to a point agree that it doestn affect other people.. up to a point. in casual dating, in a short term relationship maybe it -doesnt- affect them but you agree that after a point it begins to, right? i mean if she is with you for a couple years and she is getting serious about you and making long term plans and stuff dont you think it would affect her at that point? im ont saying it has to, im jsut curious. it jsut seems to me, in my mind, the more your life gets intwined with someone elses the more that stuff -does- begin to affect the other person.... i guess thats totally open to debate and everyone draws that line in a different place... i certainly hope that future guys tell me if theyre bi... cause if they dont we'll be missing out on some great sex :<<




It's a damn good excuse, I found out much later when telling gay men that I'm bi. Suddenly, not a word that comes out of my mouth can be taken for what it is.lol Somehow my sexuality is like Dextor's 'dark passenger', hiding in the background waiting to pounce, and I'm just as much a victim of it as them.:eek2:

i actually googled dexters dark passenger so i could understand what you were referring to here. :>> i really gave this a huge amount of thought tryign to understand this. i guess what you are saying is that gay men trust you more if they think youre gay? and straight women trust you more if they dont know one way or the other? but when people find out you are bi suddenly its a big mysterious thing they dont trust or understand and are very suspicious of????

that really sucks that gay men seem prejudiced against bi people ??? wow. it also makes me sad how little many women seem to appreciate how awsome being bi can be??? its a shame. but i guess i understand it its like being biracial maybe, you are kind of betwen worlds, its harder to get accepted in either world. its really a shame if thast the case and that isnt right.

like i said i really hope that by the time my daughter is (well damn.. i was gonna say by the tme shes an adult, then i forgot shes in her 3rd year of college, DURRRFRR) honestly though when my daughters generation is in charge of stuff (and yours too) i am quite sure there will be a whole lot more acceptance of the wide amazing gorgeous variety of human experience and how beautiful and nifty it is and how awesome it is and how great it is and that people have a billoin choices and we can find partners who are like us and want us for what we are..... just like people dont care about interracial marriage anymore.




I expect that I've been snooped on, but don't mind really. Like you, I'd just tell them anyway if there was a prob. I'd like to see them try shutting my gob about it!:rolleyes:

HAHA damn straight. // ok well im really looking forward to that parade i hope everyone will be there for the massive naked tea party and subsequent sex party im super looking forward to it <3 <3 <3

[Gearbox]

@ Cherry- Even though neither of us put any effort into getting the awards, damn right we can still get up there and claim it.:tongue: I already practice the naked tea party bit in groups of two, but I'll keep at it to prepare myself for 100's.lol
I think that we both swing to non-complications, and that's how we've managed it all these years. We just can't be bothered with a big fuss. I've spent most of my time trying to keep things simple. Now THAT is a big effort coz not many things come pre-packed in 'simple' .:bigrin: It's def a fight against the tide very often.
Like you, I enjoy long term relationships and not really need sex outside them. The more your with a person, the more emotionally and sexually connected you get and it makes everything even better. But when single, I am promiscuous and have a great time getting intimate with complete strangers too. I still prefer fuckbuds though, coz you carry on where you left off.lol

I never told any female partners about me being bi coz it really didn't effect them. I hadn't had sex with a male since puberty, an although I never lost the desire to, those desires were not something I needed to act on. I was perfectly fine with just women. That was prob due to suppression but I really don't know. I'm 50/50 and classed my attraction to other men the same as I classed my attraction to other women. So I didn't point out either attractions to female partners.:bigrin:
BUT if I had a dire urge to go have sex with men pop up, I HOPE I would have told them. I think I was just lucky that I wasn't in a relationship when it did.
For those who were in relationships when that happens, I can completely understand how stressful that can be.

That 'dark passenger' thing isn't far off the mark IMO, so I can kinda understand why gays & straights have trouble with bi's on that level. As you can see, I was bi all the time in m-f relationships but ok with living as hetero. Today I'm having sex with men and not seeking m-f relationships, living as gay but am still the same bi as I was before. That's still a bit of a turnaround isn't it?:rolleyes:
To many gays & straights it looks like I don't have a clue about what's going on myself and my WHOLE sex & love life is a big mess of gay & straight. It also looks like I've had no control over it.
That is a fair point IMO! So even though I will claim that I am NOT confused and won't turn straight or gay at any moment due to factors beyond my control, they are prob thinking "You poor soul! You just can't help yourself can you?".:tongue:
I've had a Good Samaritan bloke come to my aid and swear that he'll do all he can to wash away my liking of women. That he'd make it easier for me to love him etc.:rolleyes: Then I get thinking that it's not ME who's confused. I loved women despite liking men.lol
BUT I can see how it gets confusing. I don't like it, but there yu go.

[*pan*]

this is one of the reasons, i will always tell my partner i am bisexual, i would rather let it end there early in the relationship then to live in a lie taking a chance of falling in love and end with broken hearts. this just happened recently and didn't hurt as much as it would have if i didn't say anything. with all that said, the trust has been broken and it's up to you to try and repair the damage if she will let you. if she will understand and take you as you are.

[cherry88]

@ Cherry- Even though neither of us put any effort into getting the awards, damn right we can still get up there and claim it.:tongue: I already practice the naked tea party bit in groups of two, but I'll keep at it to prepare myself for 100's.lol
I think that we both swing to non-complications, and that's how we've managed it all these years. We just can't be bothered with a big fuss. I've spent most of my time trying to keep things simple. Now THAT is a big effort coz not many things come pre-packed in 'simple' .:bigrin: It's def a fight against the tide very often.

ha! i think you are right about this.. love can be very complicated but on other levels, really a lot of people just totally overthink stuff.



BUT if I had a dire urge to go have sex with men pop up, I HOPE I would have told them. I think I was just lucky that I wasn't in a relationship when it did.
For those who were in relationships when that happens, I can completely understand how stressful that can be.

well it just raises a lot of questions... i mean.. -do- bisexual people get the urge to be with others while in relationships, more often than non-bisexual people, really?? or not?? its kind of an interesting question. i mean if you look at each human being as an individual, then every human being on the planet can give a person soemthing their partner cannot...... i mean the idea that one sex provides something the other cannot, doesnt necessarily follow that thats somethign that -needs- to be acted on in a relationship.... its interesting to think about.

if a person can be with one woman and not 'need' another woman, surely they can be with a woman and not 'need' to be with a man right???? people are peopel right? we all have somethign different to offer dont we? or is that too simplistic?? i think some people are just non monagamous..... indpendent of their sexuality. while some people are monagamous, independent of their sexuality...




That 'dark passenger' thing isn't far off the mark IMO, so I can kinda understand why gays & straights have trouble with bi's on that level. As you can see, I was bi all the time in m-f relationships but ok with living as hetero. Today I'm having sex with men and not seeking m-f relationships, living as gay but am still the same bi as I was before. That's still a bit of a turnaround isn't it?:rolleyes:
To many gays & straights it looks like I don't have a clue about what's going on myself and my WHOLE sex & love life is a big mess of gay & straight. It also looks like I've had no control over it.
That is a fair point IMO! So even though I will claim that I am NOT confused and won't turn straight or gay at any moment due to factors beyond my control, they are prob thinking "You poor soul! You just can't help yourself can you?".:tongue:
I've had a Good Samaritan bloke come to my aid and swear that he'll do all he can to wash away my liking of women. That he'd make it easier for me to love him etc.:rolleyes: Then I get thinking that it's not ME who's confused. I loved women despite liking men.lol
BUT I can see how it gets confusing. I don't like it, but there yu go.


you know.. i admit. i find it harder to 'trust' my bf now that i know he is not monagamous. and it -is- a 'dark passenger' thing. its something i really dont understand, i dont get the motivation behind it, its a big mystery to me and as such it seems like something huge, scary, unpredictable, and alien to me....

the interesting thing is, while we were just talking about it, i -didnt- find it big or scary or weird at all...... or feel he was less trustworthy becuase of it.. only after soemthign happened (an action outside our relatoinship agreement) that -was- hugely terifying and difficult for me to understand, and really was severely outside the bounds of ethics in my mind, that made me feel he -didint- really seem to be in control at all........ then yes, it began to sort of look like that to me.. this 'thing' that apparenlty motivates him that i have absolutely no understaning of, and which seems very extremely likely to 'make' him do stuf that is very hurtful and painful which he -doesnt- seem to have a lot of control over..... so i think its a very interesting analogy.

so yeah it looks a littile scary from the outside and -does- honestly make me trust him a little less, than someone who isnt likely to do stuff like that... its sad to admit that, but its true. im not sure hes really inherently any less trust worthy as a person. its just cause i dont totally udnerstand the motivation behind it. // its interesting that a gay guy would be more concerned about you leaving him for a woman, than just another guy....... // you know? both seem equally likely to happen or not happen. the difference probalby is just that he is less familiar with the motoivations that make one desire a woman.

however the more i udnerstand waht motivates him the more trust i regain. like anything stuff is scarier when you dont understand it of course.

[Gearbox]

you know.. i admit. i find it harder to 'trust' my bf now that i know he is not monagamous. and it -is- a 'dark passenger' thing. its something i really dont understand, i dont get the motivation behind it, its a big mystery to me and as such it seems like something huge, scary, unpredictable, and alien to me....
The best way I can describe the compulsion for a bi to venture into their bisexuality (get same gender sex) is to compare it with a females compulsion to have a baby.:tongue:
Some women go through life perfectly happy without a child even though at the back of her mind she wants one. She puts it off and it's not that much of a big deal coz she's happy enough being childless and it gets suppressed. BUT sometimes the ticking clock comes along and it tells her that stuff needs to be dealt with before it's too late. It's always there, but the ticking gets DEAFENING!
That is what I mean by 'dark passenger'. The instincts that our bodies and minds will only tolerate to be kept in the dark for so long before it demands an airing.

well it just raises a lot of questions... i mean.. -do- bisexual people get the urge to be with others while in relationships, more often than non-bisexual people, really?? or not?? its kind of an interesting question. i mean if you look at each human being as an individual, then every human being on the planet can give a person soemthing their partner cannot...... i mean the idea that one sex provides something the other cannot, doesnt necessarily follow that thats somethign that -needs- to be acted on in a relationship.... its interesting to think about.
If you consider that the act of same gender sex for SOME bi's is more to do with who he/she is than just the act itself, you may understand the urge for it?
No that doesn't mean that bisexuality is promiscuous in nature, but it can have strings to self expression and it's sating of. It's not just extra sex they are after, but also (in many cases) mutual acceptance of a natural part of their ID, IMO. For many, failing to accomplish that can lead to depression. It seems that we have drastically different levels in that regards to reach a point of self discovery that we are happy with, but that is pretty foggy at the mo as far as I can tell.


the interesting thing is, while we were just talking about it, i -didnt- find it big or scary or weird at all...... or feel he was less trustworthy becuase of it.. only after soemthign happened (an action outside our relatoinship agreement) that -was- hugely terifying and difficult for me to understand, and really was severely outside the bounds of ethics in my mind, that made me feel he -didint- really seem to be in control at all........ then yes, it began to sort of look like that to me.. this 'thing' that apparenlty motivates him that i have absolutely no understaning of, and which seems very extremely likely to 'make' him do stuf that is very hurtful and painful which he -doesnt- seem to have a lot of control over..... so i think its a very interesting analogy.

He was daft to go outside the boundaries that he agreed to! But at least you appreciate that it wasn't to hurt you or damage the relationship.:)
It seems like while he's out discovering what makes him tick, you are taking the opportunity to see what makes you tick too. That IMO is partly what relationships are for. You have already stretched your comfort level by relaxing some boundaries and THAT is no small task, as you know. You are treating your partner as a person to be explored and that is how we get past fears etc.
When we cease fearing the unknown and uncontrolled, we can just get on with the love.:bowdown:

so yeah it looks a littile scary from the outside and -does- honestly make me trust him a little less, than someone who isnt likely to do stuff like that... its sad to admit that, but its true. im not sure hes really inherently any less trust worthy as a person. its just cause i dont totally udnerstand the motivation behind it. // its interesting that a gay guy would be more concerned about you leaving him for a woman, than just another guy....... // you know? both seem equally likely to happen or not happen. the difference probalby is just that he is less familiar with the motoivations that make one desire a woman.
I'm 'different', so was hard to relate to for the gay bloke. I prob didn't understand him either, but that doesn't scare me. And that lack of vulnerability/fear gives no guarantee that I'd have responsibility for his fears. I don't share them, but do consider them. He thought that he needed a hold on me so he could love without fear IMO. That is what I notice about many of the monogamous. That's why rules are in place to keep the fear at bay and give love a breathing space. But the more rules in place, the more like fine china they become. The more like fine china they become, the more out of control their fears get.
I hope you will come to a point where NOTHING scares you and you realize that your not some antique porcelain doll, but a woman who takes on something that puts her in jeopardy willingly. I know what fear is, believe me, so can appreciate how extreme even a tiny step can be. I CAN guarantee that it's well worth every effort.:)

[cherry88]

The best way I can describe the compulsion for a bi to venture into their bisexuality (get same gender sex) is to compare it with a females compulsion to have a baby.:tongue:
Some women go through life perfectly happy without a child even though at the back of her mind she wants one. She puts it off and it's not that much of a big deal coz she's happy enough being childless and it gets suppressed. BUT sometimes the ticking clock comes along and it tells her that stuff needs to be dealt with before it's too late. It's always there, but the ticking gets DEAFENING!
That is what I mean by 'dark passenger'. The instincts that our bodies and minds will only tolerate to be kept in the dark for so long before it demands an airing.

urrghghghg its kind of hard to hear and think about but i get it.... this is just how my bf describes it. i get the feeling it is something he would feel regret, if he were not able to do at the times it comes up. // or, that he was not doing what he was 'supposed' to be doing with his life... // yup. makes a lot of sense thank you.




If you consider that the act of same gender sex for SOME bi's is more to do with who he/she is than just the act itself, you may understand the urge for it?
No that doesn't mean that bisexuality is promiscuous in nature, but it can have strings to self expression and it's sating of. It's not just extra sex they are after, but also (in many cases) mutual acceptance of a natural part of their ID, IMO. For many, failing to accomplish that can lead to depression.

this also makes sense to me.... this also is the way my bf describes it. he describes the important parts of it in terms of getting to know himself, 'growing up' etc etc he is very clear the actual act was not the important part of it for him. the important part of it was beign himself and expressing his real self. he has said many times the actual event was not that important and totally was nowhere near worth risking our relationship as it did...... however he feels (and i really understand this) it -was- very very important that he did something that he felt was part of expressing his real self. to him that was the important part of it.

that actually kind of helped me cause origianlly what pissed me off so bad was the idea that he was so willign to throw away our relatoinship over something (In my eyes) totaly meaningless like 5 mins of sex. it actually helped me realize that the actual reason for doing it was -deeply- important to him.



He was daft to go outside the boundaries that he agreed to! But at least you appreciate that it wasn't to hurt you or damage the relationship.:)
It seems like while he's out discovering what makes him tick, you are taking the opportunity to see what makes you tick too. That IMO is partly what relationships are for. You have already stretched your comfort level by relaxing some boundaries and THAT is no small task, as you know. You are treating your partner as a person to be explored and that is how we get past fears etc.
When we cease fearing the unknown and uncontrolled, we can just get on with the love.:bowdown:


my bf has acted with a lot of integrity the whole time ive known him. i share a lot of his motivations and reasons for doing the stuff we do as adults... we just express some of it in different ways... the credit goes to him for being trustworthy and really putting a lot of effort into that. he has acted in a trustworthy way and he has done a lot to help me udnerstand him and trust him. a lot of that credit goes to him. he has worked really hard this whole past year and we still go to therapy every week and he participates in every way. hes made a lot of effort to meet me halfway and show me that he values this relationship and doesnt want to hurt me, and that has helped me stretch for him.

this is somethign that people who feel they need to be dishonest, could learn from. its really tough to act with integrity and it takes being strong and it takes self denial at times however in the long run, it is the way to -realy- get what you want. my bf could have taken the easy way to get what he wants, do it behind my back and hope i dont find out, or he could put in the effort to get what he wants, and cultivate a relatoinship in which he is really supported and understood in getting what he wants... the second way takes a LOT more work.. a lot more patience and a bit of sacrifice.. however i think that this work will pay off for him, becuase he wil lhave what he -realy- wants which is a good strong relatoinship in which he can -also- really be himself openly, and feel good about it. he is smart enough to realize this and also ballsy enough to do the work to make that hapen and the credit for that definitely goes to him. at this point i honestly feel terrible for putting him through what i have now that i understand more what he was tryign to do. thats a big turnaround from last year. if more partners would put in the kind of effort maybe more would get that kind of response from -their- partners. (dunno)



I'm 'different', so was hard to relate to for the gay bloke. I prob didn't understand him either, but that doesn't scare me. And that lack of vulnerability/fear gives no guarantee that I'd have responsibility for his fears. I don't share them, but do consider them. He thought that he needed a hold on me so he could love without fear IMO. That is what I notice about many of the monogamous. That's why rules are in place to keep the fear at bay and give love a breathing space. But the more rules in place, the more like fine china they become. The more like fine china they become, the more out of control their fears get.
I hope you will come to a point where NOTHING scares you and you realize that your not some antique porcelain doll, but a woman who takes on something that puts her in jeopardy willingly. I know what fear is, believe me, so can appreciate how extreme even a tiny step can be. I CAN guarantee that it's well worth every effort.:)


i agree. with love especially sometimes the harder you work for something sometimes the sweeter it is... and i -hope- i would get to a point where nothing scares me!

perfect love casteth out fear but boy that is so hard to achieve sometimes. the credit goes to my bf for being a very ethical person with a lot of integrity and faith in himself and willingness to do hard work and be patient. if more people could do that a bit more maybe they could get more understanding from thier partners at these times.