Bisexuality compared to Gay Monosexuality

[tenni]

When I am reading on this site, I sometimes read the connection of bisexuality to gay.

i.e. “ You are not going to understand what bisexual and gay men deal with.”

I wonder if the linking of bisexuals is valid when linked with gays?


The simpliest and most obvious connection is that bisexuals like to have sex with same sex people like gay people.
Is that enough to link bisexuals on an on going basis? I doubt that it is true but we still read posters connecting them. We sometimes read a bisexual refer to their same sex attraction as feeling gay.



How do you perceive bisexuals as different from gays beyond the point of being attracted to both genders?

[darkeyes]

Bisexual men and gay men are linked as are lesbian women and bisexual women both socially, sexually, and politically. You wouldn't understand since you don't partner with men or live with a male partner in a relationship, or even have a boyfriend/partner, actively date men, aren't out, are low on the Kinsey scale, and you've got lots of internalized homophobia/biphobia and think that it's "bisexuals vs. the rest of the world", "gay men/lesbians and heterosexuals are 'bad' and against bisexuals", etc. and I could go on for pages but you wouldn't even attempt to understand just how bisexuals and gay men/lesbian women are linked, and you would just go on with your usual BS about how you don't like gays, lesbians, heteros, or people who you call monosexuals.
I don't recognise that much of tenni from anything u said.. some.. not much.. 'bout a thimble full... serpently not anything which justifies accusations of homo or biphobia or even heterophobia... he has asked the question.. why dont u help him out and answer it instead of waffling on and trying bamboozle with ur typically twisted misrepresentations of the man... and if u wont help him out... this is a bisexual site for bisexuals (among others) who want to learn.. please explain ur wisdom in reply to his question to enlighten them... or are u really just here to bitch:confused:?

[darkeyes]

Tenni asked a question.. there are new members come and go all the time... articulate ur views and enlighten them. There was and is no need for u to repeat urself... forget what u think of tenni or anyone else...what is ur perception of bisexuals as different from gays other than they are attracted to both genders? Now try and resist the temptation to slag off and just answer the question... it isn't so difficult is it? We wait with baited breath...:)

[Annika L]

I've written about this subject, about how bisexual men and gay men, and lesbian women and bisexual women are related in various ways many times on here. You and tenni have not been paying attention, and that's not my problem. He'll reply with his usual biphobic and homophobic drivel since he just likes to hear himself talk.

Interesting that you don't like to repeat yourself on topics that could benefit the community, like a civil response to a civilly phrased question (that as Fran points out, many would benefit from reading...if you have something to say)...but you're willing to repeat yourself ad infinitum about tenni's character. Says lots about yours, actually.

Tenni, as a bisexual woman with a female partner, I am *viewed* as gay by 90% of people who don't know me. Yes, I try to correct that misunderstanding when it comes up in conversation, but it just doesn't do to wear a shirt that says "Despite appearances, I'm actually bisexual" *every* day...the damned thing just gets dirty. So yeah, most people see my partner and I as gay, rather than bi. So every single topic (social bias, power/privilege, assumed stereotypes, etc.) that affects lesbians affects us. That's the link. I think it's more spot-on to say that we *only differ* from lesbians in that we are also attracted to men...otherwise, the link is pretty damned strong. Does that make sense to you?

The other *difference* is that our sexuality is even more invisible than lesbians' sexuality. Where we live, LGBT is rare enough that when we go out, most people assume we are friends, sisters, etc., and not a couple. (Actually, two of our best friends are a gay couple, and we *love* to go out to dinner with *them* to see which of them the waiter pairs with which of us!) But we differ from lesbians in that once someone figures out that two women are a couple, they are assumed to be lesbians...for lesbians, that amounts to having their sexuality understood; whereas for us, that amounts to having our sexuality misunderstood (even though our relationship may be understood).

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and suppose that the dynamic between gay men and bi men is pretty much the same.

[Annika L]

You blame others for a victim stance? That's rich.

Ok, well I have expressed my own experiences and truths in my post above. We can watch together how tenni and Fran attack them.

[darkeyes]

How would this actually benefit the "community" or this website? What would be the point of repeating myself yet again? So u don't like repeating urself? When prey, did this change come upon u? For u have pretty consistently done so in the past... on some matters and some people ad infinitum... and it also rich to criticise others who may attack u when historically u have done a great deal of that to others... u really must lose this thin skin of urs.. everything we say is liable to be picked up on and criticised...it is what debate is about.. how we gain understanding of what others think.. it is how we learn and hopefully progress.. some of us welcome it... and so should u...

[tenni]

Thanks Annika
You have discussed your situation as a bisexual woman before but it is good to keep us all aware of a bisexual living in a what is easy to assume is a lesbian/gay relationship. Many people do see monosexuality and bisexuality antonyms. Just as within monosexuality is the antonym of heterosexuality and homosexuality.

Your post reminds me of the monsexual priviledge list at http://radicalbi.wordpress.com/2011/07/28monosexual-privilege-checklist/ Maybe point 2 is relevant to same sex bisexuals living as a couple applies? When a bisexual lives in a cross gendered relationship, they are assumed to be hetero monosexual.

" When I disclose my sexual identity to others, they believe it without requiring me to prove it (usually by disclosing my sexual and romantic history)."


I also find some aspects of the radical bi website relevant to my own perspective about bisexuality. Drugstore writes quite differently from Annika about being a bisexual in a same sex relationship. Bi radical writes about the history of the term monosexual and bisexual quite well on May 21 2013. Although the connection to Freud is pushing it for me as icky in the first several paragraphs. Rather than being portrayed as homophobic and biphobic I personally identify with the author of Bi Radical in several areas. I see Bi Radical’s perspective as easier to identify with and distinguishes bisexuality clearer from the old school GLBT philosophy which I do not identify with. Bi activism is not old school GLBT philosophy.

Gay monosexuality is where Drugstore seems to fit in as far as his philosophy. I may be wrong but that is the impression that I get from his rather negative statements about those who do not adhere to his sexual philosophy. On March 13, Bi radical writes about the goals of the bi movement. She doesn't put others down but outlines the three levels of the bi movement. She is at times a bit feminist radical for me but her words frequently make a bit more sense. She does write about tearing down the binaries of heteronormativty, homonormativity etc. It is an interesting read at times and a bit too radical at other times. Still it is refreshing to read rather than the recycled 1970's gay movement philosophy.

[tenni]

Imo Drugstore I would say that your views on sexuality are gay monsexual (homonormative?) philosophically. That is not what is negative in your posts imo. You attack those who do not adhere to your and the Gay monosexual philosophy. If you feel that I have flamed you, I am sorry for having done so. \it is my understanding that we are to discuss ideas and not people. Let us both try to do this better in the future. Read the bi radical blog and see if there is anything that you agree with. If you find that you are more in alignment with the gay monosexual philosophy then realize that there are other sexual philosophies. Discuss bi erasure, Bi Invisibility etc.

[tenni]

Just to clarify.
The question is about comparing bisexuality and gay monosexuality.

How is being a bisexual different from being a gay monosexual ?

[Annika L]

Just to clarify.
The question is about comparing bisexuality and gay monosexuality.

How is being a bisexual different from being a gay monosexual ?


Just to clarify, did I answer a different question?

I didn't share my experience as a bisexual woman just to share it again...I did it because I thought it answered the question you were asking.

[tenni]

Annika
I asked the question and that is your answer. I don't think that I expected that answer but then why ask a question if you know the answer.:confused: Yes, your answer makes sense to me for a bisexual in a same sex relationship. I don't mean to be greedy but I wonder about other views or how are bisexuals different than gay monosexuals regardless if we are in a relationship? Not all bisexuals are in same sex relationships but we are all bisexual and not gay monosexual.

Sorry if some of my posts seem wonkie. I've lost temporarily my beloved Mac to the repair shop. I'm trying to write with a PC . It is different..lol

[darkeyes]

Bisexuals, especially bisexual men have greater angst about their sexuality than gay men or women. This is true to some degree about women but far less so and increasingly being bi for women is the thing to be and is especially true among the male heterosexual community.. not all heterosexual men feel this way however and are as anti lesbianism as many women are. Some bisexual women or women who claim to be bisexual never fuck a woman on their own, but there must always be a man involved or at least present. Whether this is a heteronormative pressure, or some women are playing a game to impress is open to question but is probably a bit of both in many instances...This is something lesbian women for obvious reasons are just not into. I suppose there must be some men who are the reverse side of that coin but I have never met any. Male homosexuality for that is what essentially bi males practice if they are active is far less accepted in the world generally and there is serpently a double standard involved even among some bisexual women who would no more sleep with and have sex with a bisexual man than would many heterosexual women.

Because of the greater dislike of society as a whole towards bisexuality as opposed to homosexuality, men especially, but women too are far more secretive about their activities and suffer far greater stress and mental and often physical illness than either the gay or straight communities. I speak as a gay woman, but who has many gay and bi freinds of both genders, a bisexual sister and partner, and who herself was once bisexual (although some would argue that I never was and one or two indeed that I still am). Most bisexuals will enter not gay relationships but str8 ones and this differs them from the lesbian or gay communties.. there are both gay men and women who do enter such relationships but these are generally people who were either not aware of their sexuality or did not accept it and wed or partnered with one of the opposite gender hoping it would go away and/or to conform... I myself married a man but my then bisexuality and and now what I realise was my encroaching lesbianism ensured that it could never be a success. External pressure from society that we enter into normal (ie heterosexual) relationships means far fewer bisexuals enter into opposite gender long term relationships and most bisexual people I know look on the heterosexual partnership as their long term aim. Very few self aware gay men or women would ever consider this as a viable road to go down.

Some in the gay and lesbian community do not accept bisexuality as a reality.. having spent my teen years and earlyto middle 20s as a bisexual all I can say is that they talk through their arse. It doesnt help when the media talk about gay this that and the next thing when the queer world is made up of far more than just gay r lesbian people. Some bisexuals will become gay but not all.. not even most. The atttudes of many straight people who consider any, particularly men, who are bisexuals as really gay is an added pressure that gays don't have. If those in the straight and gay communties would lighten up and become more understanding, bisexuals would find life so much easier and they would endure less stress than is placed upon them now. They would be free to practice their sexuaiity in the way they see fit and given the respect of all. Gays increasingly have that respect although there are still those who loathe gay people and think they should be criminalised.. but in general such people are more frightened of those who have sex with both genders, and who may love both genders and they refuse to look much more than skin deep at bisexuality and have many misunderstandings about it

I don't regret my sexuality having evolved for without it my life would have taken a very different path.. I am who I am and the sum of my existence. I have so much in common with bisexuals of both genders but I also have so much in common with heterosexuals. Bisexuals feel far more divorced and isolated, even frightened of and from either and from society as a whole because so many of both the other communties do not wish to understand and accept them, and among those who do, or claim to and support bisexuals right to be, many still have misconceptions about bisexual people and consider them far more likely to be a danger to what tenni calls monosexuality.

I don't entirely understand heterosexuality or my own sexuality... and even although I was once bisexual, I don't understand that entirely either... but I learn more every day about all and it helps make me a better more rounded person, and more compassionate, tolerant, accepting and understanding about the difference between us, and our similarities and our uniqueness.. we are the same.. but we are all of us also so very different...

I'm not entirely sure Tenni darlin', if wot Ive sed helps or is wot u r looking for... it is just a wee tart's view and have answered what u asked in a wee tart's own peculiar way...

...and Annika me luffly? I kno wy u sed it but I wud nev attack ne thing u sed.. u kno me better than that:kiss:

[tenni]

Thanks a lot darkeyes for taking some time to think about the question. There is much that you write that is deserving of reflection.

1/ Angst over our sexuality. Your observation that bimen experience more angst than gay men is very interesting. Many biguys want to identify with the heteronormative values and I have read several young biguys incorrectly feeling tormented and sad that by being bi that they will not be able to marry and have kids.

2/ Secretive aspect Many bisexuals are clearly not what the gay activists want us to be. Bisexual activism as far as I can find do not place public disclosure on the same high priority that gays do.

3/ Double rejection by other sexualites Yes, this does seem to happen by some who are not bisexual. There is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

4/ Lack of understanding Yes, there seems to be more sexual research into homosexuality than bisexuality. As I initially wrote, some bisexuals struggle to find the best semantics to describe their attractions etc. By referring to feeling more gay etc. bisexuals show their struggle in understanding our sexuality.

Thanks I may have missed some thoughts or misinterpreted your ideas but it helps. They all seem a bit negative though? Have we some differences that are positive? There is always the old Woody Allen line about chances of getting a date increases if you are bi…lol ;)

[darkeyes]

Thanks a lot darkeyes for taking some time to think about the question. There is much that you write that is deserving of reflection.

1/ Angst over our sexuality. Your observation that bimen experience more angst than gay men is very interesting. Many biguys want to identify with the heteronormative values and I have read several young biguys incorrectly feeling tormented and sad that by being bi that they will not be able to marry and have kids.

2/ Secretive aspect Many bisexuals are clearly not what the gay activists want us to be. Bisexual activism as far as I can find do not place public disclosure on the same high priority that gays do.

3/ Double rejection by other sexualites Yes, this does seem to happen by some who are not bisexual. There is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

4/ Lack of understanding Yes, there seems to be more sexual research into homosexuality than bisexuality. As I initially wrote, some bisexuals struggle to find the best semantics to describe their attractions etc. By referring to feeling more gay etc. bisexuals show their struggle in understanding our sexuality.

Thanks I may have missed some thoughts or misinterpreted your ideas but it helps. They all seem a bit negative though? Have we some differences that are positive? There is always the old Woody Allen line about chances of getting a date increases if you are bi…lol ;) Ther r some luffly bi peeps out ther.. and increasingly they r becoming more confident.. the increasing openness among women and young girls is pretty positive... and even a few guys seem 2 b poking ther heads above the parapets... espesh among teens and early 20s.. many young emo for instance don't seem 2 give a toss bout who knos bout ther sensual and sexual likes and dislikes and many r quite open 'bout who they fancy... and I don't mean peeps of the opposite gender.. even some guys... they r far more in touch wiv ther emotions and show affection in a same sex situation (not always wiv sex in mind but more than we kno I think) than kids of that age wen I wos at school.. and that's not that long ago... ther is hope for the long term so don't fret babes... the young don't give a bugger bout the sexuality of others.. thats a general statement cos ther r bigots among them .. but far less than wen I wos a teen...

..and finally... I live wiv and am married quite the nicest, sexiest, luffliest bi person on planet... that's pretty positive innit?:bigrin:

[Gearbox]

I've found that this phenomena called 'THE SCENE' has a lot to do with how gay men describe themselves. They are either 'Scene' or 'Non-scene'. Apparently the 'straight acting' ones are 'non-scene' and the camp ones are 'scene', but not necessarily so.:bigrin: I think its to do with gay culture, as much as going to gay bars etc.
Bisexuals don't have a 'scene' or any culture, that I know of. That might be why many of us don't see any reason to 'come out'. Come out into what?

When chatting to gay men that I happened to be in bed with just after doing something considered 'gay' with them, we sometimes end up talking two different languages.Not English & Welsh, but 'gay' & 'bi'. I'm expected to like certain music etc and have the same thoughts on things that is part of gay culture coz I just did something 'gay'.
It's much like a compatibility test, that I fail. I'm an outsider, a tourist in gay land, or a fake gay.:eek2:
That is experienced between 'scene' & 'non scene' gay men too, I've been told by some 'non scene'. They speak of 'the scene' as if it's a drug that they weened themselves off.

It is enough for most gay men that we have the same sexual and/or emotional interests in each other, and the bi tag means nothing. It's that way for ALL bi's (in my experience), coz there's nothing else to add to it. When with a bi male, we have an understanding of the route we took to get where we are. We share similar life histories.
It's not the same history for most gay men, but we are pretty much all in the same boat IMO. It's just that for most bi's, the need for something to be labeled 'gay' (such as same gender sex) isn't required.

[Annika L]

I was reading another LGBT forum where the question was posed "Do you fit the LGBT stereotypes?" and an important difference between bisexuality and gay monosexuality struck me.

Gay monosexuality for both men and women is rife with visual stereotypes...there are so many stereotypes that there's a pretty narrow definition of how you can look or be without fitting one.

But I could not think of a single (visual) stereotype associated with bisexuals. What does the stereotypical bisexual look like? We know they sleep with anything on two legs, are chronically indecisive, and are on their way to becoming gay. But what do they look like? Whom, pray, should we emulate?