help understanding sex outside of relationship

[deremarc]

Hi. I have read about extra-relationship sex on other threads, but still have some questions and concerns.

I am straight, my husband (may be) bisexual. That is all on another post..but basically...found chat, porn, history of hookups...came out that he has been with men in the past...(not just be thinking...gee,maybe he is bi..lol). He still denies that...but we are dealing with other issues as well.

History of me...straight, conservative...maybe due to my raising?-- have always thought relationships should be monogamous, that true love meant just you and me forever...lol.

My husband has told me that he really wants sex with others (women, couples...and I think men), but that it would be me that he loved...and wanted forever...that he just likes the variety..he has a very high sex drive (porn-gay, bi, straight, big girls, big breasts etc and masturbates several times a day.)

This is my problem...when I think about him having sex with others, it makes me feel a little sick inside (jealousy? insecurity? mom never taught me to share?:)...i don't know).

And, since I have been on this site, I have read posts from other people that feel the same way...their wife/husband/other is the center of their life, whom they love very much...they just want sex with other people.

Forgive my ramblings on this...but I have thought about it a lot and tried to sort it out. I know it is just sex. I know that I have had one night stands with people that meant no more to me than fun. I'm sure I could have sex with another guy, and I would not love my husband less. I think I could love sex with another, and still love it with my husband. I know I don't feel betrayed in the other areas of life (i'm thinking we are intellectual, emotional, spiritual, physical beings.) when he has those connections.

So, if him having a intellectual discussion or interest with some one else, or an emotional connection to someone else (like my ability to love all 4 of my kids equally, but not the same) or whatever else....I guess the point is, I don't feel like if he has these other connections that it lessens his love for me.

So, why do I feel that with sex? I say, sometimes, that is because of the connection, because he is in someone else. That I want to be the one that satisfies his desires, that makes him happy, that he wants.

But, then I know that sex can just be sex...(like the one nighters mentioned above). So, why am I so threatened?

Intellectually, logically, I can go "okay, it is just sex. he still loves me...he still enjoys sex with me...we still belong to each other."

But, emotionally I just....get upset....hurt...scared...worried....sick.

And, he tells me it is just fun, he just enjoys other bodies..the newness...the difference, but it matters to him a lot...he gets depressed when we talk about it. I feel like I am not allowing him to be him...but I don't know how to handle it either.

And, seriously, when he first told me what he wanted (please forgive the brutally honest feelings here) I thought "bullshit! you are just selfish!" and then the horrid thought " i don't satisfy you sexually or have the body you want".

And, I know we have a great sex life, sex every day, nothing between us is off limits...

And, I know he loves me.

I guess for me, though, he is all I need in a man (relationship) mentally, emotionally, physically.

And, I hate it that I am not enough for him...it makes me feel less of a woman (when he wants the girls with HUGE breasts) or inadequate (but less so) when he wants a man. And I have the best sex I have ever had in my life with him ( probably due to his pure love of all bodies, sex, anything involved) and have done things with him that I enjoy...and never had done before(anal, rimming, porn, light bondage, dirty talk...etc...and I love all of that.) But, for me...why have sex with someone else when I could have great sex at home?

But, after reading these posts here...I realize that for him it is not bullshit. He does really love me, and loves the sex with me...he just wants "more".

I see that in other posts.

I want to know how to deal with it. How others see it (especially the ones who love their partner but want sex outside the relationship) and how the partner handles it.

I would gladly let him have sex with other men (somehow less a threat?) and would do threesomes with him...but I honestly don't know if I can handle it...or how much it will hurt me.

He said just recently that he has had to give up other big dreams in his life, other things he has really wanted...but, it makes him depressed.

I truly want the best for him..and hope some of what I am thinking/feeling came through here.

And, maybe for me it is conditioning/upbringing...maybe it is just me. I don't know. I don't know if I can change either.

Just really reaching out for help here. I feel so unloved right now (even though he is so smart, and funny and sweet and takes great care of me...(first guy I have ever leaned on for anything)...and I know he loves me.

God, I just hurt!!! And, it makes me feel like he doesn't love me....

[Rhuth]

Just in case Drew hasn't beaten me to posting the link:

The Straight Spouse Network (http://www.straightspouse.org/index.shtml) is a terrific resource catering specifically to your needs.


It is my opinion that you seem to be monogamous in nature, and your husband is Polyamorous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory). I have never been of the opinion that this is irreconcilable.

All successful marriages have give and take and sacrifices on both sides. What I cannot tell you is what sacrifices will work for you and your husband to be happy. From your side of the story, I see you are actively trying to find a sacrifice you can make and feel comfortable with. He may be working just as hard, though it is hard to tell from a single post.

Perhaps a counselor or other professional third party can help you both work through the pain of figuring out what works? Do not be afraid of organized Polyamory groups. You might be surprised at how much they will be on your side and counseling patience and restraint for your husband. Groups in your area are:

KanPoly (http://www.kanpoly.org/) and Mid-West Poly Group (http://hometown.aol.com/polyamory/myhomepage/polygroup.html)

*hugs* You are so brave! Hang in there!

[deremarc]

Thank you. I have gone to the straight spouse network. Thank you for the other sites as well.
I actually have talked to some couples who swing, and they all say the same thing you did..for him to be patient and not to push...that we should not do anything until I am ready.

I have actually changed/adapted from where I was before. When I first found out he might be bi, I was just in shock, slightly scandalized (sorry..I hate saying things like that...knowing they may be taken wrong...but it is the way I felt.)

I am okay with that part now...lots of inner reflection..the help of several great people here.

I think he is polyamorous...and I am pretty sure I am monogamous by nature. I don't know how people make that work.

It was rather horrid for us in the beginning, and he is now understandably reticent when it comes to talking about these things.

He has said that we just won't do it if I can't handle it, and refuses to discuss it now for the most part. But, I do know that the thought of never having that in his life, is depressing for him. I understand all of this intellectually, it is just my stupid emotions I am having trouble with.

It did help and brightened my outlook on life to read posts from other people who said, yes I love my wife completely (but still want sex with other people). I guess just because it helps me understand him more. And, somehow, it validates what he says....makes it seem more believable to me.
Because what I was feeling was that he didn't truly love me.

And I don't know how hard he is working at finding a solution...(and he doesn't want counselling). It seems to be all or nothing...either I do and guarantee him that I will love every minute of it and it will never cause us a problem...or we don't even fantasize about it or watch porn that relates to it...and we don't speak of it or ever do it.

Surely, there is some middle ground?

And, I told him that I would try it...I would love to be able to give that to him, and in some strange way, it would seem like I was the one pleasuring him...(maybe because I would be involved?). But, I couldn't guarantee him that I would want to do it again, or that I wouldn't be hurt.

I think if we try a threesome, I might like it. I think it is worth a shot at least, but maybe not. I know the more I think about it, the easier it is to envision.

And I might love seeing him and love knowing that I can give that to him as well.

I just am trying to understand the mindset of the polyamorous people out there, in hopes that it will help me understand and accept this part of my husband.

[Aleksandra]

I think it's not just a sex, not just sleeping with someone else, or having 3some, no way. It's a lie if someone make things in that way.
Essentialy: Sex is art.

First of all, i think that your hubby is totaly honest to himself, and his real nature finaly came up, which is good because he don't have to pretend anymore that he's straight.
Now it's all up to you and your emotions.
If you really love him, there is no room at all for any jelaousy, that is just an excuse and nothing more than that.

Just simply try to accept that part of his nature and character and without many thinking just do it. Find someone in real and make his wishes come true.

You have nothing from only thinking about it, it's may became a real torture and only open a new questions without any answers.

Just simply do it! There is no reason for any fear or anything.
After you 2 try that in real, then you can think about it was it good or bad.
It's really easy to feel jelaous imagine him watching having sex with someone else, but in real in front of your eyes, all that may look diferent. If you see smile on his face, than you should be happy too.
You wont get anything just sitting and thinking about what you feel, somehow, in that position is normal that all kind of mixed emotions, some of them really irrational coming on real.

Just let yourself go and be brave. Do it, and then think about that.

[zarine]

what exactly is he wanting? is he wanting to be able to have sex with many many people, have new partners every day or every week or something? or do you think he might be happy enough just finding an extra partner or two to add into his life? there has to be some middle ground. having sex with too many random people is just too risky. not only is there the potential for diseases, but also you never know when he might meet a psycho. maybe he would be willing to compromise and just agree to have only a few extra partners.

i've had to toss around the idea of if my boyfriend ever breaks down and decides he needs to have men on the side to have sex with, how should i deal with it? i've come to this conclusion: if he has to have his freedom to have sex with other people, he should be willing to make some sacrifices within that freedom.

firstly, if he gets to have that freedom, then he should be willing to give me the same freedom (which i'd probably very rarely take advantage of, considering my standards for having sex), also, without freaking out.

secondly, since his actions will have an effect on us both, then i have a right to take part in his decisions about other people (and he has a right to take part in mine). if he wants complete and total freedom, then he shouldn't even be bothering with a relationship because it takes two to make a relationship, and thus those involved in a relationship should have some say in who they let step into it. and working relationships are all about compromise (unless the couple is so perfectly matched, they agree on anything and everything), not about having everything you want for yourself and to hell with how the other person feels but then still expect them to give you all their love and devotion in return. does this make any sense? i will tell him that if he finds someone that he is interested in, he must let me know about it, and that i should be able to approve of this person first before he gets involved. i need to make sure that he is with someone trustworthy, honorable, disease-free, and non-psycho (it wouldn't do for him to one day meet some dude off the net, and wind up chopped into pieces and stored away in a freezer for barbequing later). especially if i'm going to try doing a threesome, then i really need to feel comfortable with this other person. i would NOT feel comfortable with some random person off the internet or from a club. if i'm going to make him happy and do a threesome, then i have to make sure that i feel comfortable and safe with the situation. so anyone who is going to have sex with him, me, or us should be someone that i also feel at least a fondness for and trust.

does that sound like too much of a sacrifice? to me it sounds reasonable, since he will still have that freedom to explore and stuff, but at the same time, he would be making some concessions to make things easier for me to handle. he would simply just have to cut back a little on the exploration part, and would have to let me be involved in some way. we should be a team dammit! if his need to have everything he wants outweighs his need to consider my feelings and needs and maintain a healthy relationship, then he will just have to break up and go his own way. he's not in a relationship if everything is about him and him only. he would just be selfish, greedy, and spoiled to expect to have everything his way and then come to me, his backup, when he wants real love and affection. if he wants my love and affection, then i have to be able to respect him. and i doubt he'd have any respect for me if i just grew weak and let him do everything he wants even though it hurts me and then still smother him in love like a faithful dog. personally, i don't see the point in a relationship if we can't honor each other.

anyway, i know i'm just rambling and i'm not sure if i'm making any sense. i'm having a hard time articulating exactly what i want to say. i tend to do my thinking in writing, so i know i get lengthy and babbly.

i guess the point of my post is that maybe this is the type of compromise he can do for you, if you like this idea. i haven't had to deal with this situation yet, so i don't know how well it would work out, but after a lot of thought, this seemed like the best way for me to be able to deal with it. having a person involved that we both like or at least having some say in who he "fucks" would perhaps make things less scary, and perhaps make me feel less "threatened" or jealous. and maybe it would even make things fun...

my other questions are, how long have you two been married, and how old is he? perhaps he is going thru a phase where he has excessive sexual energy and once he gets a lot of it out of his system, it'll eventually just peter out. then he'll be able to focus more on his love for you and less on what his crazed penis is telling him.

[deremarc]

I became friends with my current husband after my divorce. We were best of friends for 3 years prior to dating. He was my confidante, my most trusted person, and the person I turned to for advice, comfort, laughter and inspiration.

He had always wanted to go out with me, I was just hesitant....the "you're too good of a friend to lose" thing...which was absolutely true....

We started dating and fell in love (we already loved each other as friends). We ended up married, and I was so happy...I thought I had found the person and the relationship I wanted. We had long deep emotional discussions and I know that he knows me better than anyone other than myself.

I thought that was mututal, until about 2 months into our marriage when an instant message from a guy referring to anal sex popped up.

Our first year of marriage (it was a year in June) has been tumultuous at best.

I found out there was an entire part of his life that he had kept hidden from me...a past that included men, couples, swinging, internet hookups etc.

I just know he wants sex with other people (he would like me to swap, to have threesomes, he is denying wanting sex with men right now although he still looks at gay porn, belongs to gay hookup sites).

I just don't know how to handle it. My views on sex and relationships, fidelity and love are just different.

If he gave me the same option, to sleep with other people, I would rarely, if ever, take it. I have a strong sex drive (within our relationship) but have no desire to have sex outside of it. I just don't. I look at men, and think, damn he's hot! but that is it...I don't think about having sex with him.

I just know this seems to be a big drive of his. I have offered to try it with him...but he wants a guarantee...wants me to say that it is what I really want, that I love it, that it would never cause any problems for us or any negative feelings for me.

I can't guarantee any of that.

And, it would sound great that he is willing to forego anything to do with it, except he still looks at hookup sites...for men, for couples, for large breasted women....and not having this makes him depressed...it is like a passive control, I guess.

He has fooled around on me a couple of times (when we were seeing each other) and I have found out later that it would always start with him wanting sex (not with a specific person, just more sex)(and we have sex daily, sometimes several times a day...so, it is not a larger quantity of sex he wants, just variety). Anyway, after he started getting antsy, picking fights with me, (that would eventually cause us to take a break with me never understanding exactly what was going on) wanting sex outside of our relationship...he would then join hookup sites and eventually act out.

That is what worries me so much. If this drive is so strong, I think I would rather give him some leeway and participate in this with him, so he doesn't feel the need to hide things or lie or act out.

But, I also don't know how people handle it when they don't both have the attitude that sex is just great fun, and you should have it with whomever you want (that wants to have it with you) and that it has absolutely no impact on the relationship.

For me, he is my focus...where I act on my desires....I just wanted to know how the people that are more like my husband ACTUALLY feel about their partner. Do they truly love them? Are they important to them?

I guess to me, sex is much more than physical...it is joining with another person (at least for that space in time)...and I can't see how that can't hurt your relationship...or how I would not feel hurt and betrayed by it. Knowing that for that space of time my husband's entire attention is focused on someone else...on the pleasure they can give him and on pleasuring them.

I feel like it would be choosing someone over me and putting his needs above our relationship.

Besides the fact that it just plain h u r t s!!!!

ZARINE---
he would just be selfish, greedy, and spoiled to expect to have everything his way and then come to me, his backup, when he wants real love and affection. if he wants my love and affection, then i have to be able to respect him.

Is that what my place in his life would become...his backup...the person he wants to keep here to love him and make him feel complete and support him, while he is out diddling with other people?

And, who is there for me when his desires/attention is focused elsewhere? What do I do? Sit at home with the kids and do the domestic life and then welcome him back into our marriage bed when he is done. Me laying there hurt, wounded and him laying there replete and happy, thinking of this other person who he just shared such pleasure with?

And, does he really love me then? Or, is he just having his cake and eat it too?

I guess I don't understand this strong desire for others. I know almost all my coupled friends think about sex with someone else at some point, but the relationship with the partner is too important to act on it...and it is a simple desire....not a "need".

I'm sorry I ramble so much...I just think a LOT about this stuff...and am trying to make sense of it...and want to give as clear of a picture as possible.

What he said he would love to have...is a relationship with me..with all of the love, support, companionship etc that he has with me...and the ability to have sex with other people without it affecting us.

He said our relationship would be perfect if I wanted that too.

I asked why he didn't tell me this stuff before we were married...and he asked if I would have gone out with him then? He said he had been in love with me for a long time. If I am so important, why this? And, I asked him if he thought I would be okay with it. And he said he thought I was smart. I asked what on earth that meant, and he said you are so intelligent, I just figured you would know that sex and love are two different things. And, I said what about when I told you I was monogamous...didn't fool around (except for a short period after my divorce where I went a little wild...but it was definitely not the life for me).

Maybe I wouldn't have gone out with him. We would have remained friends, and he might have been much better off finding someone more like him in this regard.

That being said...I love him completely...I don't want to give up on us...I just don't know what to do.

[innaminka]

That being said...I love him completely...I don't want to give up on us...I just don't know what to do.

I have read the posts with increasing empathy. The quote above is my husband and I - except he is, or was, the one in your situation.
I am the bi person in the marriage.
This was many years ago.
He didn't give up on me, I didn't give up on him.
We worked it out in our way - peculiar to us. But WE worked it out. Communication - not unilateral demands are the key to any relationship.
Open your heart to him - and then LISTEN (not a shout, just emphasis) to his heart.
If you truly love each other you have a real chance to do as we did - to work it out peculiar to yourselves.

[Reprob8]

I really empathise, I am the bi person in our relationship and it is very hard to stay faithful, everyday is a test and I just hope that the feelings will subside soon. I love my wife and have no desire for another woman and she still excites me after 20+ years.

[her hubby]

I do believe things would have been simpler if only he divulged this part of him prior to dating and getting married as he knew this side of him and it's importance to him.

As with any type of relationship communication is of the upmost importance.
Also noted in the opening post that you say the two of you are dealing with other issues as well: these issues should be handled first before trying to step your marriage into a life style that is new. For a poly/open marriage to work there must be a solid foundation to that relationship.

As to an insight of you husbands feeling I can understand his point of view that sex and love can be independent of each other. Though is fully enjoy sex with several partners (as does my wife) there is no time that she plays "second fiddle" in my life; there is nothing I would not do for her, she is definitely first in my life. We have had partners, both together and alone, but at no time is there any secracy. And as a male my standards are probably lower than a womens, thus we concluded that any partner/potential partner must meet both of our approval. And a plus side to this is that we must be friends with them, no fly by nighters. There have been many a time we planned a weekend with a couple at our cabin and there was no sex at all, just friends spending time together.

Now my wife thinks the same as I do, thus not nearly in your situation. You have your own ideals and values and they are as equally imoprtant as your husbands. You seem to be making every efoort to meet at some midpoint with him and I don't see how he could ask for any guarantees that you would be totally comfortable going against your ideals. He should feel fortunate that you are willing to at least try things and decide if it is or isn't suited for you.

Bob

[deremarc]

The other issues we are dealing with are the ones separate from him being bisexual..the issue of sex with other people.
And, I agree... I don't know how he can expect guarantees...we both already know it is not exactly what I want.
I would try it...it may cause problems and/or hurt...but there is the chance it would work out great.
I guess, if we try it...and I can't handle it...then we have to look at other solutions.

[zarine]

be prepared for a long post.


What he said he would love to have...is a relationship with me..with all of the love, support, companionship etc that he has with me...and the ability to have sex with other people without it affecting us…

I asked why he didn't tell me this stuff before we were married...and he asked if I would have gone out with him then? He said he had been in love with me for a long time. If I am so important, why this? And, I asked him if he thought I would be okay with it. And he said he thought I was smart. I asked what on earth that meant, and he said you are so intelligent, I just figured you would know that sex and love are two different things.
Ok, this makes me mad. It does seem like your husband wants to “have his cake and eat it too”, considering he wanted to continue his relationship with you while hiding his sex addiction from you and now that the secret’s out, he wants to be able to have everything he wants while still having your love and support. By hiding this very important “need” from you, he basically set things up to where either a) he would be living a lie, and make you live a lie without even knowing it because he would break down and sneak around behind your back, thus still having your full love and devotion while he is schmoozing around, or b) putting you in this very situation, where it seems like he wants you to make all the changes for him (such as doing things you’re not comfortable with and let him do things that hurt you) without really trying to make changes for you and if you don’t change yourself, you will have to feel bad about it, knowing that now he may just have to find his satisfaction behind your back and that your relationship may crumble. His counting on you to accept it all (possibility “c”) was a very bad gamble, especially since he should have known you well enough to know how you feel about these things. Basically it seems like he’s put the weight of the relationship on your back. I suppose if you had never pushed to uncover his secret, there would be no weight, but then there would just be a gigantic lie that would get discovered later and hurt you even worse than it is now. I’m very glad my boyfriend told me about himself, so I at least knew the risks, and had the chance to decide on whether to continue the relationship or not. And I was thus also able to recognize problems for what they were as they arose and then could nip them in the bud with his help. Sure he hasn’t always been cooperative and he’s been rather selfish and stuff, but things have improved a lot (I think… I’ll get more into that later).

If he gave me the same option, to sleep with other people, I would rarely, if ever, take it. I have a strong sex drive (within our relationship) but have no desire to have sex outside of it. I just don't. I look at men, and think, damn he's hot! but that is it...I don't think about having sex with him.
I guess to me, sex is much more than physical...it is joining with another person (at least for that space in time)...

I feel like it would be choosing someone over me and putting his needs above our relationship.
Ok time for more rambling:

I think I am a lot like you in this aspect. i have to really like and trust a person A LOT before I’d even have a twinge of desire to have sex with them, it doesn’t matter how “hot” they are. I’m pretty much indifferent to “hot” looks if the personality sucks or is unknown. I really have to have a mental connection. I can’t even get in the mood or enjoy sex much if my mind and spirit aren’t involved in it, too. A really hot guy could lick my crotch all day long and not get a response out of me if I don’t like him (actually they’d probably get a disgusted response and I’d ask them to quit slobbering on me). I don’t have to be in love, but I at least have to feel comfortable and have affection for them, and feel sure that they care about and respect me, too. My body is not someone else’s entertainment or food to consume… I don’t hand my body out to just anyone, they have to earn the privilege to touch it. Why give it to such undeserving people, who will use it and then throw it away like so much trash? I’d be nothing more than another notch on their ego bedpost.

I guess I’m not completely monogamous, since while in relationships there have been times when I have felt the temptation to kiss or do even more with someone that I thought was a really neat person. I never did act upon the temptations because it’s just never been a strong or important desire to me, but who knows, maybe one day I would find myself in a situation where I’m really strongly attracted to someone and won’t be able to resist. i think I could handle letting my boyfriend lavish affection/passion on someone else, as long as I liked and cared about that person too, and I knew that my boyfriend still loved me and that I was still the most important person to him. I don’t really believe it’s necessary for people to stay completely faithful in order to maintain a good relationship... I believe that people can love more than one person, probably usually at varying degrees. I just think that communication, honesty, and a willingness to make compromises are the most important things.

On the other hand, I don’t think I could handle my boyfriend wanting sex with lots of random people. Not only would it be a health risk for the both of us (and could possibly put us in danger), it would also show me that our values are in two completely different places. It’s just something a person like me simply cannot understand. I really can’t understand how people put so much importance on sex, especially those who view it as just some fun sport, a commodity like nice clothes, gourmet food, and expensive cars. They are all nice to have and make life more fun, but don’t necessarily make your life fulfilled. These material things such as physical pleasures and possessions are fleeting and meaningless in the long run. To me, sex is important in a totally different way. It is a way of being close to someone I care about, an artform in which to express my affection. Otherwise it’s nothing to me. While I have really enjoyed this site, reading the various viewpoints, learning more about human sexuality and it’s complexities, laughing aloud in amazement at amusing enthusiastic “dirty” posts, and wretching at others, and everyone here seems really nice and helpful, at the same time I feel really alien, really alone, in my attitude about sex.

At first I thought our situations were similar, but it seems yours is much more extreme. From what I can judge about what my boyfriend has told me and from observing his personality, I don’t think he wants to have sex with lots of people. I think he craves guys a lot of the time, and probably gets tempted to go to bars and pick up a guy, but i think he would prefer to have sex with someone he knows and likes over getting a random guy. I think if his need to be with guys ever became overwhelming and he had to give in to it, he could be happy with just an extra person on side and not need an army of people. I really feel for you in your situation.


And I don't know how hard he is working at finding a solution...(and he doesn't want counselling). It seems to be all or nothing...either I do and guarantee him that I will love every minute of it and it will never cause us a problem...or we don't even fantasize about it or watch porn that relates to it...and we don't speak of it or ever do it.

I just know this seems to be a big drive of his. I have offered to try it with him...but he wants a guarantee...wants me to say that it is what I really want, that I love it, that it would never cause any problems for us or any negative feelings for me.

I can't guarantee any of that.
I don’t know how he can expect you to know ahead of time just how you’ll really feel about something, especially since you haven’t tried it yet! You’ll only know how you feel afterwards. And I think it will also depend on the situation and the people involved. If you’re like me, you won’t be comfortable doing a threesome with some random weirdo off the internet.

I think you should go ahead and try out the things your husband would like you to try. But since he kinda dragged you into this situation, now he has to take responsibility and be patient with you and work with you to make sure you are comfortable and happy (or at least as close to happy as possible, given the circumstances). just take things slowly and maybe in small pieces and test out how you feel about each situation, discuss it, and he should be willing to make adjustments. He has to make compromises with you, he has to make sacrifices for your relationship, he has to meet you halfway. It can’t all be what he wants and nothing for you. You are willing to try things out for him, but you should also put your foot down and make your own demands for each situation… “i will do this for you, but I want you to do this for me.” for example, if you don't want to do a threesome with a stranger, you can demand that you will only do it under condition that you guys wait until you find a suitable third person. Your happiness counts, too! It can’t be all about him. First he was in a situation where he hid his needs from you, trying to conform to what he thought you wanted. Now you’re in a situation where you’re going to try conforming to what he wants, possibly stifling your own needs, and then you’ll wind up the one unhappy and bitter if you find you don’t like that lifestyle. But really it can’t be only about you or only about him, it should be “us”. Approach this as a team, or as band members combining styles to make a new kind of music. :yinyang:

I agree with her hubby, he really should appreciate that you love him so much you’re willing to try things and make changes for his sake. Now does he love you so much, he can do the same for you?

[EludedSunshine]

If I tried to expand upon anything the others before me have said, I'd probably just muddle things. Rather, I'm going to respond to something else you asked for: a polyamorous view.

I'm very fortunate to be with a man who understands my views of love and sex as separable things. In past relationships, however, this wasn't the case. So my brain came up with the Ladder System--which I'm sure has many interpretations independent of my own, but here is mine:


|-| The top rung of the ladder is whoever I'm with in the "primary" relationship. (It has always been either a boyfriend or a fiancee with whom I am incredibly emotionally committed.)
I assure the person that there is absolutely no way for anyone else in my life to climb to that rung. It's solely him, and the only person who can remove him from it is himself.
|-| The second rung contains my closest of close friends. These friends may (and have in the past) become sexual partners. I also may come to love them very dearly--as friends.
There are very, very few people here and it's hard to get to. Regardless, they are absolutely unable to climb any higher.
|-| On the third rung are most of my "friends." The people with whom I socialize. I also may (and have) become sexual with them. However I don't love any of them on any level.
The person on top is in absolutely no danger of being dislodged by third-rung friends. After all, they'd have to get to the second rung first...
|-| Cluttered up around and under the fourth rung is everyone else. The people who are casual friends or others I have to deal with for one reason or another are here.
There's no sex involved, and certainly no love.

...I guess it's more of a stepstool than a ladder. Oh well...
( And sorry about the cheesy visuals; I admit I got a little carried away. :tong: )


Anyway, I hope this helps in understanding polyamory or (in my case) non-monogamous relationships. Of course I can't say that this is how everyone feels, or even anyone other than myself... but the fact that one person strongly adheres to this is proof that it is indeed possible. Everybody has some sort of ladder, and each one is different. I'm sure your husband has one, too. He probably reasons in a similar way.

Many of us have sex outside the relationship with people we love and care about, but still value our primary partner more than life. I know that I wouldn't give up my guy for all the sex in China. It's not that we haven't had terrible troubles in the past. It's that the relationship is worth it.

I've been reading your posts from the beginning (although I haven't been able to respond much) and I really feel for you. I, too, was raised to be conservative. But it wasn't right for me. The views I've developed over the past few years were often challenging to everything I'd believed up to that point. I met the challenge, and I'm more fulfilled for it. There is no one answer, but there can still be a right answer for you. Best wishes to ya, darlin'.