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View Full Version : 50+yo MWM Worried that Wife is Souring on the MM Desires



dman8888
Jul 9, 2021, 7:00 PM
I'm probably worrying too much, but she's my universe and I'm afraid she's on a path that could end badly. The act of writing it all down reduced my threat level from marriage-ender to high-friction-event; I don't think there's really a danger of splitting up over this, any more, but there could be some tense times for a while.

Reading the preview, this sounds pretty one-sided. Please understand that I give as much as she wants, whatever she wants, any way she wants it, pretty much any where she wants it, and find that very fulfilling, and she says she has no complaints at all about what she's getting or how often.

The Quick and Dirty:
I've been out to her for years, but no playing with others allowed. I have and use toys to simulate bottoming and have been uncomfortable talking to her because sex feels like work already for her (we're over 50, after all), but she also feels inadequate because I want to explore something she can't do. We talked and I fucked up that last part. I tried to fix it and that didn't help at all. We're going to have another conversation this weekend, and I think a full reboot on the inadequacy thing is the way to go - flat out say that in addition to her satisfying me in every way a woman can with her natural parts already, she could satisfy the rest with a strap-on and a lifelike dildo. Thoughts?

Background: (scroll to skip to The Now - can't figure out how to do anchors in BBCode)
As some members know, my wife basically knew I was interested in MM action before I became "aware" and out to her some years ago. In hindsight, based on fantasies and such, I should have known much sooner. Anyway, initially she was very positive and encouraged me to find someone to explore with, but I demurred for a long time. A few years ago, a triggering event got me unsettled and I talked with her about exploring, again. She said sure, but when things started to get kind of real, she got scared I'd leave her for a guy and asked me not to continue. There's no way I'm risking our relationship, so no extra-marital play for DMan8, just toys, porn, and fantasies.

She was and for the most part seems to still be accepting of that set of desires, and I would very much like her to participate, such as by pegging. Heck, even using a remote for a vibe would be nice. But any time my interests come up, it gets awkward. It doesn't help that we're at an age where her drive just isn't even close to mine, so even vanilla sex starts to feel like work for her. Plus, being over 50, getting and/or keeping it up often is an issue. So adding the anal play requests to the existing sexual pressure just seems like a bad idea for a bunch of reasons. (Interestingly, she likes it if I hit her up for some action in the night. Some amazing blow jobs and other great sex have resulted from this.)

One factor in my awkwardness discussing things with her is a session we had not long after we talked about me being bi. It was New Year's Eve and we'd had a few glasses of bubbly and we wound up with her trying a dildo on me. It was spontaneous and I tried some on-the-spot preparation, but it got messy, and I didn't realize it until well into the session (it was fucking awesome on my end). I was hugely embarrassed and apologetic, but she said it was fine. Thing is, I know better than to take that at face value, so I have no idea where she really was with the experience. As a result of that happening, and based on some later discussions about various acts, I inferred or convinced myself that she wasn't interested in trying that again or otherwise participating in anal play with me.

When I started (discreetly) playing in earnest not long before the lockdown, not really satisfied with playing with what we had, I started amassing additional toys. I play mostly while alone in the house, though I often will keep a plug in after she gets home. If it's one with vibe, the vibe stays off if she's in earshot since I'm pretty sure all of them can be heard. The play wasn't a state secret, but I didn't exactly advertise it, either. I mean, she knew generally what I was up to, but didn't know any details or participate apart from suggesting I not keep plugs and lube in our medicine cabinet when she for some reason opened the thing despite it not being used for anything else. Actually, I might have left the door open after getting something out. Well, she knew things were afoot, anyway.

The Now (more or less):
Recently, like a month or two ago, I started using a couple of toys that were prone to odor retention, so I started using condoms to help with cleanup and odor. Not wanting her to think I was having guests in the house for sex, I told her what was up - that I was using the condoms for cleanup/odor control and not cheating on her. She seemed fine, understood why I told her, and like all was well.

Since then, we've had some frank discussions about us, our needs, and our state, and now it seems things are amiss. She told me she feels like she's not enough for me, and I didn't and don't know what to say to that. Honestly, isn't that why I got the toys? So I could explore those desires without breaking my promises and vows to her, without hurting her? What I told her was she's all the woman I can handle and that she's my world and love and she's fantastic in bed, but yeah, there are some things that I want that she can't do without attachments. That's the gist; I don't remember exactly how I worded it, but it was a tactful and gentle as I could think to do. Yeah, the last part was probably dumb, but I didn't want to lie to her.

Some days after that conversation, I tried working the pegging angle by suggesting that with the appropriate accessories, she could be all the man I could handle, too. But that backfired a day or two later when she told me I'd suggested she be more manly. Honestly, sometimes I wonder how two people who speak the same language can fuck up communication so badly on a routine basis.

So we're going to have another conversation this weekend. I'm thinking a reboot of the whole she-feels-inadequate conversation is needed, with less hedging about things I am uncomfortable bringing up and that I hope she's not uncomfortable discussing. That is, starting over with she is my universe and great in bed and fully satisfying in everything we do. Then add that the things I still want to do, she can do or at least help with. All we need is a harness and a lifelike strap-on, maybe even one that ejaculates and cum-imitating lube, and boom, I'm up to try anything she's up for. She can fuck me silly every which way, fill my mouth and ass and coat me with jizz, maybe even better than a man could. I just don't see her reacting well or being at all eager to do this since sex already feels like work to her. But at least it will be out there. Oh, God, maybe it would make it worse?

My worst fear is that she won't be able to get over it and won't participate and won't be happy with me continuing self-exploration, and that we'll wind up breaking up. But that's pretty unlikely given what we've already been through together and how we work through things.

Any thoughts are welcome. Please be gentle.

DMan8

Realist
Jul 10, 2021, 9:57 AM
DMan,

You hit on a very important issue; namely, the inability for different genders to communicate effectively! The language and meanings, between men and women, are often misconstrued. Feelings are hurt, because saying something and comprehending it, means different things in our minds!

Actually, I think you're doing an excellent job of being honest and revealing interests, while remaining true to your vows.

Looking back, many years, I had a similar issue, that was on the other foot. I know, from experience, that (at best) communication is often difficult, even for those who are attempting to convey a compelling desire, to a loved one. Some women I've known are adept at taking something said, completely differently, than what I intended to convey!

Conversely; I, too, have heard something differently, than was intended, when a female partner was attempting to reveal an idea, thought, or her feelings.... so it works both ways!

It seems to me that you're on the right path and your honesty with your wife is commendable.

Too many of us feel we have to slip around in the shadows and invariably, at some point, we'll get caught. (Women are natural-born detectives)

Hopes and dreams, that one generates before and after marriages, may fall apart... lives are ruined, and things will never be the same again. (I'm talking from experiences, here!) Cheating for me, was not a viable option, but I did it anyway, while thinking I was too slick to get caught!

I'm not one to give advice, but I will say, what I would do, if I were in your situation. I would continue being as straight-forward as you have been. But, you must realize that you may have to give up something, for peace and tranquility in your marriage. Whether, or not you're willing to sacrifice your desires, is for you to determine.

My first wife had an issue that we were able to resolve, by our willingness to work through the original stress it created. We even overcame our language barriers, in the process.... at least, for that particular issue.

Sitting down and discussing calmly, we developed an agreeable solution, which left us both at ease and satisfied with the results. I think you really don't need any advice from anyone else.... you appear to be on the right track, to me!

Anyway, good luck for whatever you achieve!

dman8888
Jul 10, 2021, 12:49 PM
Thank you, Realist. This is reassuring, particularly based on your (painful) experience. Such a short response to your comment seems lame, but I'm coming up empty on what more to say. :-) Thanks, again, and have a great day.

Christopher South
Jul 10, 2021, 6:18 PM
I don't think it's a matter of communicating correctly. Men and women just have different views of sex. For men, sex can just me sex. For women, sex must include love and affection. So when a guy wants to fuck someone else, man or woman, he does so just to get off. But when a woman sees a man wanting to fuck someone else, she assumes there's more to it.

Maybe your communicating the wrong thing.

Cum1st
Jul 11, 2021, 6:51 AM
Hoo boy that's a tuff one.

I suggest speaking from the heart, not a script.

Don't work too hard at steering. If you can get her to talk, let her, even if it's off subject. It may take more than one session with time to sort her thoughts between.

Women generally like to be heard, and her true feelings may come out. It seems from your post that a lot of your anxiety comes from not knowing/understanding all of what makes her who she is.

Allow her to be comfortable physically and in that you care about her. Exposing her inner self can make her feel vulnerable.

"I love you's" are good, but roll out easily. Let her see who you are inside without dominating the conversation.

Have you gone/are you going through a midlife crisis? I didn't handle mine too well.

Hopefully you two can become closer. And maybe she'll accept your desire to be physical with another man.

KDaddy23
Jul 11, 2021, 4:56 PM
There are a lot of women who are "okay" with their man being interested in sex with men... until he actually wants to get out there and do it. Their first concern is usually - and often, typically - that he's going to get seriously involved with a guy and leave them and, historically, it's very hard to convince them that this will never happen. It's not that they don't believe you... but they kinda don't believe you and most guys just give up any hope of having any experiences with men. Some guys can get their lady to peg them and use toys on them but when it comes to toys, even a lot of women say that they're no replacement for the real thing and guys are finding out that there's a lot of truth to this as it applies to them.

How to get past this? Communicate with her... and keep communicating with her. Again, you have to be able to convince her beyond any doubt that if you do this, you're not going anywhere and you remain 100% committed to your relationship while letting her know how much this means to you and while convincing her that your need in this is and never will be a bad reflection on her. This includes listening to her concerns and, sometimes, without always offering a way to "fix" them - sometimes, you just have to listen and if you've been with her long enough, you'll know when you have to listen and when you have to respond to a given concern. It would help if you can present your side of this in a way where this isn't so much about you as it is about something you truly believe will make your relationship better. What tends to happen is a woman will ask, "What am I getting out of this?" and you'd better be able to answer that question and without making it sound like you're in any way displeased with her and sometimes, just saying that you'll be a better man to her can sometimes turn the tide... or it falls on deaf ears. Then settle in for the long haul because such a change in things isn't going to happen "overnight." Don't bombard her with things because if she feels that you're pushing things, she's just going to clam up and refuse to talk about it or, as some women do, she's gonna push back and when this happens, drama ensues and things could get ugly.

If it helps, try to look at this as she might see it and understand that from her perspective, this isn't about you - this is all about her and how she feels and that includes anything or any way she might be feeling over not being as sexually engaging as she once was and/or, inside her head, she feels she needs to be even though Mother Nature hasn't done her any kindnesses in this and at this point in her life. You're going up against her emotions and that's never easy to do...

Cum1st
Jul 12, 2021, 3:08 AM
There are a lot of women who are "okay" with their man being interested in sex with men... until he actually wants to get out there and do it. Their first concern is usually - and often, typically - that he's going to get seriously involved with a guy and leave them and, historically, it's very hard to convince them that this will never happen. It's not that they don't believe you... but they kinda don't believe you and most guys just give up any hope of having any experiences with men. Some guys can get their lady to peg them and use toys on them but when it comes to toys, even a lot of women say that they're no replacement for the real thing and guys are finding out that there's a lot of truth to this as it applies to them.

How to get past this? Communicate with her... and keep communicating with her. Again, you have to be able to convince her beyond any doubt that if you do this, you're not going anywhere and you remain 100% committed to your relationship while letting her know how much this means to you and while convincing her that your need in this is and never will be a bad reflection on her. This includes listening to her concerns and, sometimes, without always offering a way to "fix" them - sometimes, you just have to listen and if you've been with her long enough, you'll know when you have to listen and when you have to respond to a given concern. It would help if you can present your side of this in a way where this isn't so much about you as it is about something you truly believe will make your relationship better. What tends to happen is a woman will ask, "What am I getting out of this?" and you'd better be able to answer that question and without making it sound like you're in any way displeased with her and sometimes, just saying that you'll be a better man to her can sometimes turn the tide... or it falls on deaf ears. Then settle in for the long haul because such a change in things isn't going to happen "overnight." Don't bombard her with things because if she feels that you're pushing things, she's just going to clam up and refuse to talk about it or, as some women do, she's gonna push back and when this happens, drama ensues and things could get ugly.

If it helps, try to look at this as she might see it and understand that from her perspective, this isn't about you - this is all about her and how she feels and that includes anything or any way she might be feeling over not being as sexually engaging as she once was and/or, inside her head, she feels she needs to be even though Mother Nature hasn't done her any kindnesses in this and at this point in her life. You're going up against her emotions and that's never easy to do...

Very well done KDaddy.

What I'd like to point out is his so called need is more a desire. Convince can be replaced with show from the heart, and if things don't go the desired way, "oh well," the relationship can grow.

KDaddy23
Jul 12, 2021, 5:35 PM
Very well done KDaddy.

What I'd like to point out is his so called need is more a desire. Convince can be replaced with show from the heart, and if things don't go the desired way, "oh well," the relationship can grow.

I've had this conversation with so many women over the course of my life that I've learned some stuff about having this conversation. "Need" and "desire" are semantic in nature and interchangeable, which isn't so much the point or gist of the matter as having The Conversation with his wife about it is. I have offered up the most logical, concise, and precise explanations I'm capable of bringing to the conversation that explain how this is not only good for me but it's also good for us and I've had women say that they understand it... and they still don't understand it and instead of it being about what's been going on with me and all of my life, it's now all about her... and it just isn't easy to get past any fears and concerns she has and no way I know of for her to not take it as a personal affront or insult.

I have had women ask me why I have to suck dick and I've asked them why do they like sucking dick (and if they do) and they've told me why they do... and the fact that I like it for the same reasons they do just goes right over their head and when I've pointed that out to them, I've gotten that, "Yeah, but" thing from them. They understood how my liking it and their liking it were for the same reasons - but still didn't understand it. But at the root of this was (1) them thinking and feeling inadequate as well as (2) fearing loss - I was gonna leave them for another man and continued to believe this when I'd think I'd made it perfectly clear that I wouldn't do that and that since I'd been doing this almost forever, none of this had anything to do with being dissatisfied with her because if that was the case, we wouldn't be having sex at all.

This dilemma is both common and typical and what I know is that all you can do is try and hope for the best.

dman8888
Jul 14, 2021, 1:57 PM
I don't think it's a matter of communicating correctly. Men and women just have different views of sex. For men, sex can just me sex. For women, sex must include love and affection. So when a guy wants to fuck someone else, man or woman, he does so just to get off. But when a woman sees a man wanting to fuck someone else, she assumes there's more to it.

Maybe your communicating the wrong thing.

Interesting point, Christopher, and thank you. It's definitely something to keep in mind and perhaps bring up as part of the discussion.

dman8888
Jul 14, 2021, 2:00 PM
Thank you, KDaddy23. You make many points to take to heart and your suggestions are welcome.

dman8888
Jul 14, 2021, 2:03 PM
Thank you Cum1st. More good stuff.

dman8888
Jul 14, 2021, 2:10 PM
I've had women say that they understand it... and they still don't understand it and instead of it being about what's been going on with me and all of my life, it's now all about her... and it just isn't easy to get past any fears and concerns she has and no way I know of for her to not take it as a personal affront or insult.
...

But at the root of this was (1) them thinking and feeling inadequate as well as (2) fearing loss - I was gonna leave them for another man and continued to believe this when I'd think I'd made it perfectly clear that I wouldn't do that and that since I'd been doing this almost forever, none of this had anything to do with being dissatisfied with her because if that was the case, we wouldn't be having sex at all.

This dilemma is both common and typical and what I know is that all you can do is try and hope for the best.

Excellent points, and this brings to mind a book I listened to, "Your Brain at Work," by David Rock, which puts responses like this at least partly in terms of our Fight or Flight response. Same with the way we react to criticism of job/habit/etc. It also offered ways to approach such conversations that might be useful here. I'll have to listen to it again since I don't remember much of it, now, though the techniques you and other responders have suggested strike me as similar.

dman8888
Jul 19, 2021, 12:44 PM
An update: Woo! Wifey and I often shower together in the mornings for a little TLC and fun, plus we can wash parts of the other that are hard to reach, so, bonus. Anyway, late last week in one of those, and before I sought another in-depth talk, she up and says she might be willing to try pegging me. At first I wasn't sure I'd heard her right, but yup, when I asked her she said yeah, she might be willing to try it. I'm sure I don't have to say I was thrilled, but keeping this thread in mind and knowing her, I kept it cool, smiled, said thank you and that it was great and that I was looking forward to it. My plan now is to stay low key so she doesn't get flustered about it, even though I want to go online shopping with her NOW. :-P Plus, I'm not so sure jumping right to the strap-on is a good idea, anyway, so I figure maybe I just keep one of the lifelike dildos handy and if things get hot one day ask if she'd be interested in trying that as a warm-up kind of thing, talk about moving forward, etc. I'm just so happy she's open to the idea in the first place, there's no way I'm rushing things.

KDaddy23
Jul 21, 2021, 3:13 PM
Congrats for this! I hope things keep going well!