A fun article from June: IS gay over?

[JohnnyV]

Hey all,

With all the talk about biphobic gays, you might lose sight of the fact that many people in the queer community think that bisexuals are the next big thing and gayness is actually on the downslide. Check out the Advocate cover story from last June:

http://www.gay.com/news/roundups/package.html?sernum=1506&navpath=/channels/pride/

Even if it seems like we're "alienated" from gay life, remember that lots of gay people themselves feel conflicted over whether gayness is the best term for the identity.

J

[wanderingrichard]

interesting.. the implication is that the Gay ONly movement is fracturing or imploding under it's own self centered self loving inertia.

but, then that's just part of my understanding of the article.. johnny did us right by bringing it here.. go read it and draw your own conclusions..

[twosides]

I like the article. The Advocate usually has a pretty good view on social happenings in their targeted demographic. Change happens. I think that's a good thing. I don't like change just for the sake of having change, but what the article is talking about seems like a natural progression. But it's happening fast. Faster than social observers may have expected. With the amount of awareness that's being spread about alt lifestyles, I think people are more readily and easily identifying with that outside the norm.

[anne27]

Interesting article, and even more interesting comments following it.

[Doggie_Wood]

Hmmmmmm :confused:
:doggie:

[ezervet]

Interesting article, but, i think it's at least partially wrong.

First of all, people aren't going to stop using the term gay, its just too ingrained into our culture. Hell, I'm bi and i identify with the term gay more than the terms "bi" or "bisexual" because bisexual always sounds like a mental illness, and saying i'm bi sounds weird too.. i don't know, it just sounds flippant; i think culture has given "gay" a bit of gravitas. That's the second problem I think, for all that this generation may feel more comfortable just "exploring their sexuality," or whatever, I think people will always find labels comforting to a degree. I know that I was soooo happy when i realized i was bi and could put that label on my sexuality, because that label created a community (even if i don't like the way the label sounds, ha ha).

Just my two cents. ( :2cents: for the graphically inclined)

[JohnnyV]

I suppose the main value of the article is that it disproves the common feeling among bisexuals that the gay community only acknowledges homosexuality. The researchers are pointing to the fact that a lot of young people enjoy same-sex contact but don't consider themselves gay... which is a situation that, if anything, opens up a lot of space for us bisexuals to exist and feel okay about ourselves.

Ezervet, the thrust of the author's point is that some people always like labels, but increasing numbers of people don't use them anymore. They say "gay" as a term is "in trouble" largely because the traditional politics of the gay community needed everybody who had same-sex tendencies to use the same label ("power in numbers"). Organizations like Lambda and GLAD can't carry the same kind of political weight they used to want to wield, if half the people they claim to represent won't use a label that puts them in the constituency.

The decline in numbers of young people who think that same-sex encounters make them "gay" holds different implications depending on what you think is good for sexual politics. For die-hard gays who think bisexuality is a fraud and anyone who has same-sex tendencies needs to call themselves "gay," this is a very dark moment in the history of the community, because the dream of a unified, forceful, outspoken gay utopia is fading -- as evidenced by the fact that neighborhoods like Chelsea and the Castro now have many straight people living in them, and so many people who have had homosexual relationships are still opting to settle down with members of the opposite sex in the long run.

But for people like me who have had a tortured and frustrating relationship to orthodox gay politics, the changes coming around are good. I regret that the waning sense of gay unity will spell trouble for the movements for gay marriage and adoption BUT I always felt the "gay" label was a little fascistic, just insofar as it demanded that so many people (like me) forego heterosexual relationships that could bring them happiness, merely for the sake of loyalty to a community that isn't necessarily all that beneficial to its members in the first place.

J

[coppellia]

Interesting comments guys but in the UK gays dont seem to have the same views on bisexual people...guys are guys, girls are girls and fun is fun!!

[suegeorge]

Interesting comments guys but in the UK gays dont seem to have the same views on bisexual people...guys are guys, girls are girls and fun is fun!!

Hmm. Not entirely sure I agree with you, Coppellia. I have always thought that there were many gay men in the UK who were vehemently anti-bi, very pro identity politics, and thought that bi people were deluding themselves. Not all though, obviously. And that's before you start thinking about lesbians...!

But people here (UK) are maybe a bit more laid back about sexual identity and simply don't get that worked up about it. Surely it is different in the US, where - although it's really great in some of the big cities - there's levels of homophobia that I have never seen or heard about here. After all, we have civil partnerships now and even the Tory party thinks that's fine.

That's why I'm not entirely convinced by the "we're all people now" view espoused by the young people in that article. Don't they see that there's still so much to fight for? OK, so maybe I am an old, over-political fuddy-duddy, but there's only so much partying you can do before someone tries to tell you you're the epitome of evil. There's plenty of people on this site who've been told that there wicked and disgusting etc by people who supposedly love them. And others who don't have access to their kids.

That's not to say, however, that I believe that a supposedly homogenous gay identity is all good. Just that a politicised queer community of some sort is essential.

Bisexuality and beyond (http://suegeorgewrites.blogspot.com) :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: :2cents:

[suegeorge]

That was meant to be just the one cent! Don't know what I did there...

[izzfan]

Yeah, 'gay' as a label was probably necessary in the past to fight for rights and an identity but sexuality is a complex thing and impossible to label. I mean I label myself as 'bi' because it is the closest thing to my sexuality that I can say in a single word. But the comment by Ezervet about the term 'gay' holding gravitas rings true.... I mean if you respond to an offhand hompohbic comment by saying 'I'm gay' it has a lot of impact.... if you say 'I'm bi'.... nothing really.
These days 'gay culture' is a lot more mainstream and this may lead people to become disillusioned with it or not be able to identify with it... I mean, over the summer I bought a number of gay 'lifestyle' magazines (Gay Times, AXM, Attitude etc..) and although I found that I identified with them more than straight 'lifestyle' mags (FHM, Loaded, Maxim etc...) I found many areas of the gay lifestlye magazine to be of little interest or relavence to me.... just because I usually prefer men doesn't mean that I like Kylie Minogue or the Scissor Sisters (give me heavy metal any day lol) lol. And as for the models, they are very beautiful but I can see the point that the article makes... any kind of model is usually airbrushed and this leads to a concept of beauty that no one can achieve...regardless of how little you eat or how often you go to the gym lol.
Although I said earlier that the term 'gay' is outdated, it is important not to forget it because it is thanks to the achievements of the gay rights movement (as it said in the article, the term 'gay' used to be a lot more inclusive rather than just referring to a particular lifestlye , it referred to any non-straight person) that young people are able to explore their sexuality without fear of arrest or violence. But yeah, we need to come up with a new term that captures the meaning of what 'gay' used to mean rather than what it means now. The term 'queer' seems an obvious candidate but that has too many connotations and as the article says 'LGBTQ' isn't as memorable or as easy to say as 'gay' and there are a million different combinations/meanings (LGBT, GLBT, LGBTI, GLBTQ etc.....) I don't know what this new term would be, but it sounds like a good idea. Also a very wide term would be better than having to label yourself according to very narrow categories (eg: gay, bi, straight etc...)
As for Suegeorge's comment about lower levels of homophobia/biphobia in the UK.... I would have to agree, the only homophobia/biphobia I have ever encountered is usuall quite infrequent, low level and not really very hateful (eg: someone [straight] recently referred to Oscar Wilde as a 'screaming bender' in a recent liteary discussion, also a few gay blokes that I have met were initially a bit cynical about me being Bi... but I would hardly say that it was particularly biphobic to any extent and most gay ppl I know are quite accepting). I mean the worst term anyone has ever called me is a 'poof' and that has only ever happened once or twice. Now compare this to what I have learnt about America where the term 'faggot' seems to be used quite frequently and where the Bush administration seems totally opposed to any kind of LGBT rights and where hatred towards any non-straight person is promoted from the pulpit (I think the fact that religion has more influence in the USA than in the UK explains the differing levels of homophobia to a certain level), where the youth use terms like 'faggot' casually without any regard to how homobobic it is. I think the UK is a lot less homophobic, apologies to any American members for what may seem like sweeping generalisations but from what I have read on numerous LGBT sites (most of which are American), it does seem like there is more homophobia in the USA. BUt compared to many other parts of the world, the USA seems very tolerant so it is all relative.

Anyway... I've gone on for a bit (I have a habit of doing that lol), its just my :2cents:

Izzfan

[bigirl_inwv]

I label myself as bisexual, because, as stated above, it is the closest thing to my sexuality. I don't believe I could ever have a relationship with another female, but I do love having sex with them. As far as biphobia in the gay community, I sense it coming more from females than males. I have only had one gay guy tell me that bisexuals are homosexuals who are afraid to come out of the closet. I have had many, many, many lesbians, however, tell me that they hate bisexual people. It probably isn't relevant...just thought I would point out the trend that I have seen. :flag1:

[LoveLion]

The whole "Gay culture" thing seems so odd to me. Just the fact that homosexuals have created for themselves such an elaborate way of living that extends to things like clothing, speech, taste in films, etc seems totally alien to me. To me its like creating a mew culture based on the colour of your hair, or like everyone who like a certain type of movies goes off and builts their own little sub culture. It cant be that all homosexuals buy into this culture, but a majority seem to do. Its almost like that if you are homosexual you have to watch the Wizard of Oz three times a week and ware tight pants and overly short shirts just to still be considered gay.

Once again I think the problem is labeling. And although many people are beginning to reject such labels, I dont think they are going to ever go away or decline in popularity if you will. If you look at the 60s and the 70s, the whole rejection of labels thing was going on then too and nothing has changed. Society has used labels to long and its to easy a thing to give up. Th labels might change or shift meaning, but the fact is no matter what race, religion, age, gender, or what your sexual orientation is you are going to be labeled. If you think about it our entire culture is based on these labels. You have black music and white music. Guys movies and girls movies. Gay fasihon and strait fashion. It doesn't stop at the arts. Listen to politics for 10 mins and you will hear about Majoritys and minoritys, ethnic groups and religious groups. The government (and ourselves) happily apply these labels and divide our society into different groups in order to make things more convenient to govern. When ever there is a problem in society, everyone always looks to blame a labeled social group whether it be the youth, the African-Americans, the Upperclass, the immigrants, the homosexuals, the seniors, and an almost infinite amount of others.

Good or bad labels are here to stay no mater what anyone says or does.