Tired...

[IanBorthwick]

I am so tired. Not a day goes by I am tired of feeling unaaceptable, ugly, outcast. Not a day. Then days like today I feel worse than normal because I know, out there, there ar epeople who ARE what I want to be: Happy because they feel wanted.

So many reasons to feel unwanted these days, since coming out. It's brought me more pain than anything else I know. Makes me wonder why I did it. Thought perhaps it would make things better in my head and heart. All it did was drive a wedge between myself and the one I love.

She's wanted...I am not.

I am considered to be a 4 in looks, she's chased by men and women alike here.

When we shared an account, and I was in chat, I was paged only because they hoped I was her or she was about the computer to talk to...

Am I so bad to be a Bisexual Male? So bad that even other bisexuals push me aside in the race to get around me? There are days I wonder what the hell am I bothering to even state what am! Who cares? Anyone here? Haven't seen it.

Anyone out there? One, maybe 2 people. The list boggles the imagination.

How did I become even less savoury to others? Is it because I won't drink or do drugs? Is it because I don't dress a certain way? Or is it because I am ugly? I would have to say that seems most likely.

Or is it because 90% of the people who come here all want a woman...seems likely. Even when chatting to women whose profiles say looking for friends, I was rebuffed in the chat. Told that Hubby wasn't comfy with me talking to her...and the men...the men all seem to want to know if I had Cherry with me for a 3some. So I am not an important part of the picture.

<sigh>

What am I doing this all for, if even YOU people don't care? Can someone tell me that? Or why I work so hard to gain what is simply shoved at others?

I'm sorry for ranting, but I can't help it. Two years of frustration are coming to a head and my decision whether I want to identify with any of this, anymore, is coming to a focal point. As I see it, if I am to be treated as if I were a nonentity, I might as well stay that way and never say what I am. We are, after all, invisible in society. Perhaps invisible will hurt less because I choose it than if I were to simply be forced into it.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Why are you trying to please? Trying to be? Trying to exist? If you are trying to become collage of what you think people want from you then what is really you? With the way you speak I see someone who has set any connection possibly to be made, to instantly fail. Sounds like you are sabatoging yourself with comparisons. Maybe the dam all of this has been building up behind, needs to break to let the real you run free. Until you can accept the real you and love yourself first, then no one else can.

Just my 2 cents hun.

[DiamondDog]

yeah it sucks it's VERY hard to find like minded people here since most people where I live are closeted, married and looking to cheat, or they're into being discrete which I view as being in denial or closeted. It's hard egnough to connect with people even if you don't take sexual orientation into consideration.

I do agree with you about how a lot of the people that come here just seem to be looking for women only and it's kinda obvious since you'll go into chat and everyone will just talk about women's bodies.

Still though, it must suck being a woman and having people like that swarm over you and having creepy/stalker like men and women give you way too much attention in a chat room.

Don't feel bad a lot of us are probably feeling this way too but don't write about it...

[darkeyes]

Wen I wos at school me had a bf everyone called Plook. Me wos very protective of Plook cos e wos nice carin an thought the world of me. Neva been a gr8 1 for how peeps look but am a sucker for nice peeps an he wos really nice peeps. He suffered this huge inferiority complex because he really felt no 1 cared much for him. It did get so wearing continually beefing up his self esteem, and in the end I am ashamed to say I couldnt take any more and finished the relationship.

To let u understand, a plook is a scottish word whit means spot or zit. he had plenty and thaose pooks sapped his belief in himself. I still see him sometimes and still occasionally have a wee drink, and what i see is a bloody great beefy guy who is confident, funny, bears no resentment to any, and is now a really sexy man.

His name? Ian Borthwick. Your story just reminded me of his and I hope his story tells you something.

[Doggie_Wood]

Hi Ian,

You're a hunk. And it sounds as if you are still in love with the one you lost.
If that is the case, i can empathize with you. Been there and got the T-shirt.
But ya know man, when you stop dwelling on the past, open up the pathway for the future, things will unfold for you. Granted, it may not be instantaneous and may seem like you're simply trudging along at a snails pace, the world passing you by, pushing you aside as it rushes by. Yep, been there too. And it really sucks because it hurts deep down. Doubts begin to arise in the head. But be happy and content with yourself, and the person you are and have become. Don't let dispair get you down. Know this Ian, I love you for who you are. I have never met you - but I love you as a worthwhile human being. You are not a trow-away person.
What / who you seek may just be around the corner. But you must have perseverance in order to continue. And when the time is right, you will recognize which corner you must turn in order to aquire that which you seek.
:2cents:
:doggie:

[Lisa (va)]

Looks can be deceiving, the 'hottest' hunk or girl could have a personality that sends avoid signals.

Nothing wrong in not drinking or drugging, nothing wrong in dressing the way you do, nothing wrong in the way you look. You are an individual ans as such deserve the right to live your life as you see fit, not conform to what others wants.

It just takes time to find the right person. You may love many along the way but the right one will be accepted by you as she (or he) is as they will accept you as you are.

Don't recall seeing you in the chat room but if ever you need a friendly hello I will. And yes my husband knows I visit here (not quite as often as before) and has no issues with me chatting, although I tend to be quite boring most times.

Just need to try to look for the good of any situation, sometimes it is harder than others but usually something good can be found in most any situation.

Lisa

hugs n kisses

[csrakate]

Lisa brought up a very good idea...why don't you go to the chat room and try to get to know some of the folks there? I think you will find that most of the chatters engage in conversation without the superficial concerns of looks...many of us don't even post pictures! But the real beauty of the chat room is getting to know the PERSON through friendly banter before jumping to any conclusions based on looks! While it is also true that many come to chat merely seeking to hook up, they are in the minority of the many people who pass through the doors. Give it a shot before you give up the quest! You'll find you'll get a friendly greeting as you arrive and hopefully you'll feel comfortable enough to return time and time again!

Hugs,
Kate

[IanBorthwick]

I did go and chat before when I shared the accoutn with CherryBlossom74...but I'll go back and try again. As I said...just got tired of all the negativity. Maybe it's when I go on or something, I really have no idea.

[csrakate]

Ian...sweetie....You have such an enormous black cloud hanging over your head that it's no wonder you find yourself confronting an atmosphere of negativity. I say this with all the compassion I can muster, but negativity breeds negativity. If your return to chat was full of moaning about the loss of a loved one it's no wonder people didn't try to jump your bones. What sort of cad would come on to another one who is so obviously suffering??? It doesn't exactly scream, "take me, I'm available!". Are you sure there is nothing else contributing to this mindset other than your inability to hook up? Hun, you sound so depressed and the last thing you should be concerned about right now is having someone desire you now that you are out there and single. You need to work on your feelings, deal with them and accept them. Only then will you be ready to move on and only then will people see you in a different light.

I certainly hope you take no offense to what I had to say. It's just that I've read your posts as well as the one you posted in another thread and all I can see right now is someone who is suffering. Take care of yourself first! The rest will fall into place when the time is right.

Hugs,
Kate

[CherryBlossom74]

Hello.

Just thought I'd throw my :2cents: in.

I know Ian personally and it is all the negativity around him which depresses him, not the other way round. He is a very warm caring individaul, smart beyond belief and still he is treated with contempt (except for myself and very few others), even by his own mother. Even with all the things that are positive about him there has been no interestin him other than myself, nobody wants him in any meaningful fashion.

Most people judge others by appearance only; first impressions rarely are overcome. There is a lot of people who take one look at him and dismiss him as a sexual being, all because he doesn't fit their image or something along those lines - I wouldn't know, I'm not them. He may not be the classic Olympian god in looks that seems to be desired by most, but he is a very sexually yummy man in his own right.

So, just thought a little clarification - no ranting and raving here - from a close yet outside source would help others to understand his plight.

[arana]

Hello.

Just thought I'd throw my :2cents: in.

I know Ian personally and it is all the negativity around him which depresses him, not the other way round. He is a very warm caring individaul, smart beyond belief and still he is treated with contempt (except for myself and very few others), even by his own mother. Even with all the things that are positive about him there has been no interestin him other than myself, nobody wants him in any meaningful fashion.

Most people judge others by appearance only; first impressions rarely are overcome. There is a lot of people who take one look at him and dismiss him as a sexual being, all because he doesn't fit their image or something along those lines - I wouldn't know, I'm not them. He may not be the classic Olympian god in looks that seems to be desired by most, but he is a very sexually yummy man in his own right.

So, just thought a little clarification - no ranting and raving here - from a close yet outside source would help others to understand his plight.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way Cherry (and Ian) because I'm only trying to understand the situation, but, if you are not like "them" how do you know they take one look at him and dismiss him as a sexual being? Do they actually say this stuff? If they do, why do you hang around such shallow types in the first place?
I am going by past posts of the two of you as both individuals and Cherryblossom. From what I remember, they have been negative and very down so one would assume this is what Ian is like in person. One of the first posts I remember reading was how dissapointed you both were with the site for this same reason, you weren't finding people and wanted to leave the group. The few times I have seen you both in chat there was very little said by either of you so I assume you were in private conversations. Unfortunately only those people are the ones that had the privledge to get to know either of you. The rest of us who chat primarily in the mainroom have not had that honour so we have to rely on what we read here. Maybe, as was suggested, visiting a little and trying to mingle more would help. Perhaps not, but it is worth a try. You both seem like good people and I'd hate to see Ian give up. :2cents:
Good luck!

[JohnnyV]

Hi Ian,

If you look at my pic, though you can't get a good angle, you will see that I am unattractive according to most objective standards. Yet I found a wonderful mate and have a happy life. I am muscular but I have a big head, ugly ears, and a little padding of fat. I guess the thing is that I just concentrated on the activities that gave me fulfillment -- school, my career, working out, reading, and participating in political forums like this one. I went thru a brief rough patch years ago, when I was hanging out in the gay world and thought my life was over because I didn't look like a poster boy for Soloflex. The solution was to stop hanging out in places that made me feel like that. The rough patch was brief because I stopped letting those things bother me.

It's hard, I know, and I probably sound like some platitude-wielding jackass, but honestly, the most important thing is to find fulfillment in yourself and overcoming the need for approval from others. Until you overcome that it will be hard to find a good other half, no matter where you go. Keep your chin up! And your photo looks cute by the way. With your looks I'd probably already have gotten lots of promotions by now.

:),
J

[IanBorthwick]

Ok....to Arana: On many occasions I have been told, by men and women alike, I am many nice things but they cannot think of me in a sexual fashion. In the last two years there were notable occasions on other sites where we were looking for a couple or single to enjoy together. When they would query us is Cherry could be alone and receive a negative response, we were immediately placed on the ignore list. When one time plans came through that might have allowed a threesome with a woman, last second we were asked to allow Chery to go alone. Negative response placed us both in the ignore files. Yet another notable was when a man from San Diego wanted to meet us, we told him our schedules and first said we wanted to get to KNOW him better since he moved incredibly fast. He began to push hard on the days and times when she was alone and without me around, even so far as to come up and rent a hotel room and start instant messaging her on AIM when I was at work...and he KNEW this. He was told repeatedly to wait so we could get to know one another.

And those were the ones that came to mind immediately upon reminiscing, and is by no means all that occurred.

When she encouraged me to list myself on a Latex Fetish site for gays, and post pictures of myself in Latex...I placed my sexual preference as GAY because the site had not other option at the time. 5 queries in a day, and even offers to fly down to see me. Some of the offers were rather disturbing in their fetish depths (not latex, not bdsm, not anything I can easily explain) and at first I was glad of the attention. Then due to some legislature that made gay porn on the net an endangdered species for a while, the site was remodeled and BI became an option. When the site was re-established I changed to that on my profile page. They wouldn't talk to me anymore...nor were the offers incoming at all.

We came here at last, and got several "Get to Know You" offers from a few couples whose profiles were mainly because they were looking to find a female. Essentially, it was to fulfill the husbands voyeuristic streak and his wife's bisexual curiosity. One not so bad offer was from a nearby couple that simply wanted to get to know us. But unfortunately I didn't find him attractive and was now becoming rather jaded with the proceedings.

A few more offers trickled in, oft times just to ask if Cherry was available. Changes to the profile were made, the offers stopped.

Time passed, I wanted to make friends online and started to hang out in the chat rooms. Weeks went by and nearly each time a repetion of this:

*Hi there Cherry!*

*Hello. How are you doing this evening?*

*Is this the male or the female in the couple? :)*

*Male.*

*Oh. Sorry to bother you.*

Three or four men actually engaged me in chat, but they really weren't interested it seemed. One that did, logged off and never did hear a word back in Private Message.

Through it all, when I got talk from guys, I heard "Not my type" "Not looking for a guy" or the aformentioned intro that was little more than a brusque inquiry if I was the female. If this is not a dismissal then I cannot begin to say what it is. Once again, these are the most memorable but not the only instances.

So I decided to pull my profile out of hers and let her drink in all the attention people seem to want to lavish her with, unfettered by me. She insisted on creating a profile for me here of my own, tried to convince me I could be wanted. That brings us to present and ends the synopsis.


Don't have more I can say, but feel free to ask if I haven't been totally clear or if you think I should do something different.

[arana]

Thank you for explaining, Ian. Sadly you're not the first I've heard some of these things from. When I first came to the site I heard lots of different stories and reasons for being here. Even though this is a bi site, I don't think the mix is very evenly distributed and I still think when you come in as a couple it makes it that much harder to find someone. You said yourself you had more offeres on that one site listed as Gay rather than bi. A lot of people prefer one on one encounters. These men that hit on Cherry are really not what I would call bi anyway. When you're a man hitting on the female of a couple with no interest in the male, you are not bi, you're just a horny ass straight man looking for someone you think will be easy because she's in a relationship that is open to being with others.

From my own personal observation, more couples come here for women to fulfill some fantasy for their male counterparts. I have had more women say they are bi but looking for another woman to be with BOTH she and her "whatever" because he wants to watch or be with 2 women. Some have been so desparate to find another woman because of the pressure put onto them by the man, which I think is so wrong. No one should ever be pressured to share themselves like that to prove anything.

I'm so sorry that you are having such a hard time finding someone but on the brighter side, when you finally do he is going to be one special guy. I still hope you won't give up. Just don't try so hard and it will come to you.

[IanBorthwick]

I'm so sorry that you are having such a hard time finding someone but on the brighter side, when you finally do he is going to be one special guy. I still hope you won't give up. Just don't try so hard and it will come to you.

Just so it's stated clearly for the record, and withour rancor, I am looking for either. I am bisexual and looking for love, so it doesn'r matter to me so long as love is attached to the experience whether it's male or female.

[arana]

Just so it's stated clearly for the record, and withour rancor, I am looking for either. I am bisexual and looking for love, so it doesn'r matter to me so long as love is attached to the experience whether it's male or female.
Ok, so I'm confused again...I'm sorry. What is cherry to you then?

[citystyleguy]

okay, i have been dithering back and forth here with your postings, and to put it mildly, i share arana's point of view, and that is i am confused as hell!!!

i have read your site, your postings, but not the one shared with cherry; after reading, sometimes i see a point to your disappointment, then another posting of yours only muddies up the pool.

your last posting to arana and your site state you are looking for a relationship and pretty deep at that, but you post looking for sm or sf??? as arana points out what is cherry to you then???? seems to be in words you have a ltr with cherry; are you lying to yourself or her, then????

as to the disinterest by men, supposedly stating bisexual but quite clearly straight and wanting a couple of women to drool over, well welcome to the world! being surprised at that is like looking at a calendar on monday and being surprised tuesday follows!

also, and this is where i lose patience, and unfortunately, patience is not one of my virtures; to the world beyond, you and i are neighbors in this great wonderful chaotic, conglomaration of a metropolitan and municipality, suffice to say if you're having problems finding what you want here in our beautiful el lay, then you need to open your eyes or get outside your house; hell, if you cannot find it here, then it doesnt exist, but then the flip to that here in el lay is to create it and the world will beat a path to your door!!!!

put an ad in the personals, in print or the internet; post it on the nearest lightpole; hang out in your neighbordood cafe, coffeehouse, pub, tapas; gay or bi bar; get out into the neighborhoods and explore, join groups, organizations, participate in walks/runs in support of god knows what, get a membership in golds gym, join a religious group (l.a. has many gay/bi friendly congregations); shit, do something, but to be honest guy, i do not think you are being honest to yourself, nor to cherry. :banghead:

sorry to be so down when what you need is an up, but the message needs to be clarified.

i can be there, but you need to tell me what it is you want! :confused:

p.s. to johnny v; the angle is fine, you look great! :shades:

[IanBorthwick]

Ok. I did say that the new account was made BY HER. We were together, now we are not due to the wedge driven between us. There was no point in my holding her back if she is so well desired. She created this account for ME after I deleted myself from her account as CherryBlossom74. This is all in the prior posts, I know it. What is she to me? A concerned once lover, I believe that would sum her up perfectly. That was the only thing I didn't explain exactly and to the point, but the inference is and was there.

As for honest, I have and AM honest...as well as being honest. The reiteration of being bi and not caring where the experience comes from is to stress a point. This is the real deal, I am what I am. I'll take what comes no matter what. If that is dishonest to you, you've lived in the LA scene a touch too long to recognize a heartfelt sentiment.

Moreover, until I can feel like I am not yesterdays table-scraps, there is alarge chunk of pain in my chest that keeps me from being able to share my heart with her. She knows this. Now you do, too. She thinks that seeing if anyone (note that word "anyone" because being bisexual denotes that implicitly I believe Citystyle) can like me for what I am rather than chasing around after her pantygirdle will undo some of the hurt.

Sadly, as much as I wanted to fix her created profile of me, I did assume I wouldn't be using it long. How would you like me to correct it? Shall I list the Renaissance Faires I frequent? I believe that is there. The AIDS walks I have been to? Or how about the posts in CherryBlossom74 about what others thought of going tothe Pride Festivals...been there, done that. You are assuming a boatload, that this is the only record of mine here on Bi.com. Incorrect and I also stated that from the get go. So I point back to the other accoutn and NOW you can peruse it. As for going to Gay and Bi bars, I am not a party person. Flat out. Once again the prior posts ask if I should be into the Drinking and Drug thing to be more popular. The implication is: I don't do that. I don't like bars, don't like clubs, don't like loud music. Is that clear enough now?

The error I can see here is that you assume I am dishonest because I showed you who I am rather than spelled it out.

Also to clarify, this sort of thing has been going on for nigh onto 3 years now since I came out. Any and all assumptions that this is a one month or even a 6 month event is wrong. These events have been building up and fomenting for a long, long time.

Now as to finding it or it doesn't exist create it comment...I have not found it....this query and statement of being tired was to ask if someone knew where I could find it. If you can create it, let me know because I haven't the merest inkling as to how.

None of these words are angry one, nor are they meant to instill anger. But when I have read some of the advice given I see one sure thing in a few of the replies: You are reading things INTO and INBETWEEN my sentences. As though more was there than simply stated. In some occasions it was appropriate, but in some you are assuming I am trying to gain a plethora of lovers or attention and am lying about something. Instead of this you could try and ascribe a mor ealtruistic vein to my words. Here, in print, there are no vocal inflections or body language to convey honesty or sorrow. Those with a generally distrusting nature or who can be sarcastic and dishonest themselves will see the words as they themselves would write or say them...or fear to hear them. In other words, don't read anything but the meaning of the words.

That is all.

[smokey]

This is an interesting thread because it brings up all sorts of issues...issues we can only really discuss within the context of our own lives.

First and foremost is the nature of community and our places within it. Obviously you do not see straights trying to come to terms with their own sexuality as a rule...but you do see gays, and even more so bisexuals wrestling with this. The question has to be asked....why?

Is the only thing that defines us seperate from everybody else, our sexual preference, or lack there of? And, if so isn't that as a critira for uniqueness rather shallow? After all sexuality (or sex in general) fades with the years.

Simply put, and I have brought this up before, is bisexuality simply about sex or is it something deeper, more profound or spiritual in nature? If it is how do we define that spirituality and if it isn't why not?

The second question is why is coming out as gay or bisexual all that important? I have never made a point of being out as it were or even being in a closet...as Popeye said..."I yam what I yam." If I feel comfortable with someone and it comes up I may or may not mention that I am bisexual. Other than that the only ones I make sure know are my lovers. For the most part it is nobodies business and I see no reason to go broadcasting my sexual preferances to the world.

It seems to me that if somebody can't accept you as you are, then they were never with you to begin with, (an I mean that as lovers, friends or family) and while of course that hurts, at least you know and you can get on with things...its not like you are a child molester or mass murderer or serial rapist or even a closeted self loathing funnymentalist minister. You are simply someone (and there are far more of us out there than there are gays) who can and possibly does enjoy sex with both men and women.

Finally there is this....while being gay can be lonely, there is a huge network out there to draw strength, community and family from. As bisexuals, we are not fully accepted by either the straight or gay communities and as a rule we do not have that support system in place...its almost as we are interlopers or tag along's...so yes being bisexual can be a cold and lonely place but it doesn't have to be. I have been blessed over the years with strong and abiding friendships with people I consider my spiritual family. I rarely see them anymore but I am always in contact. These are people that, for the most part I have not been sexual with (though there are ex lovers, both male and female in the group) but know and accept me for who and what I am and that is what is important. We nurture our own lives, cultivate our garden as it were and the negative cannot pull us down unless we allow it to do so,

Stop trying to plan and work out your life, toss the cards up in the air and play them where they fall. What we get from life is always more interesting than what we wanted.

[Lorcan]

As for honest, I have and AM honest...as well as being honest. The reiteration of being bi and not caring where the experience comes from is to stress a point. This is the real deal, I am what I am. I'll take what comes no matter what. If that is dishonest to you, you've lived in the LA scene a touch too long to recognize a heartfelt sentiment.

You are reading things INTO and INBETWEEN my sentences. As though more was there than simply stated. In some occasions it was appropriate, but in some you are assuming I am trying to gain a plethora of lovers or attention and am lying about something. .

Ian,

I can totally relate to being totally honest and not being believed. And it bugs the hell out of me too. I think i'm just misunderstood because i never played by the hoi polloi's rules.

It must be hard not finding a lover in so long. But you will find that certain person eventually, even if they are few and far between.

[Herbwoman39]

Stop trying to plan and work out your life, toss the cards up in the air and play them where they fall. What we get from life is always more interesting than what we wanted.

I envy what appears to be a very cavalier approach to life. Please understand that there are some of us out here that, if we don't have a plan we feel lost and without direction. It's difficult when you get to a point when you have done *everything* you know how to do and STILL nothing happens.

Put plainly, it blows goats.

For my particular situation, I live in a small town in central Florida. This is the Floridian Bible Belt. I have Googled the crap out of this area for local Bi support groups. I found one VERY small LGBT political activist group. There are five regular members. Gays, lesbians, one straight guy...and me. I thought I must be the ONLY bi person in the entirety of Brevard county! I was so desperate I even tried to start my own group. Three months and no one showed up.

Thank (fill in the blank) that I found this place.

I also gave up on getting interest here. Many of the people I've been hit on by either want hubby or just want sex and don't want to get to know each other first.

Now I HAVE had luck on BiCupid.com. There's a really sweet lady that I met and we're emailing, just getting to know each other. Later this week we'll probably move to talking on the phone and eventually we'll meet in person. She's great. She just want to take it slow, too. Very refreshing.

So my point is, you CAN find someone. It just takes time and patience.

BTW Ian, please reply to my email? I'd love to talk Renn stuff :bigrin: