More questioning .... Gay v/s Bi

[NothingToSeeHere]

Boy, this whole process is starting to piss me off! I wish I could just turn off the "what am I?" questions in my head that is pounding me day after day, night after night.

Here comes another question ... (Thanks for all those who replied to my eariler posts, you are helping a lot)

Can a person be considered gay if they don't feel any amorous love or attraction to men? Or, is this bisexuality; you love / have sex with a member of one sex (women in my case) but are sexually attracted (ok, strongly attracted -- moreso than women) to members of the same sex?

That's the big question in my head right now and I don't know what to say to it. I have strong feelings of attractions for men lately (few months) and sex with my long-time girl is less exciting to me. We do not have a very spicy sex life and I attribute some of the "less exciting" to that. (Kinda boring when you know exactly what is going to happen ... we even made a song about it. "Suck the dick, lick the pussy, fuck fuck smoke" :) )

Confused and looking for some opinions ....

[Da Doctor]

Have you tried talking to your partner about your hang ups?

Doc

[NothingToSeeHere]

Have you tried talking to your partner about your hang ups?

Yup; she is fully aware of it now (spilt the beans about 3 weeks ago). She is wonderful and accepting -- just the way I thought she would be. She has expressed interest in spicing things up in the bedroom (things I NEVER would have thought she would be into).

I have had many long conversations with her about this, but I want to tread carefully because I don't want to have her worry (too much; she is already worried).

Being the pessimist that I am, I can't get outta my head the thoughts of "well, you can mask this for a little while, but in the end, you will end up hurting her and yourself". As I've said in earilier posts, I don't *feel* gay, but I can't rule it out either. I'm at a crossroad that I don't know which way to turn.

As I've read on here (and agree with, at least in principle because it is all speculation with me), I think that the sex w/ a man (never did anything like that) would be fun at first, but get boring after a while. And THAT is my big fear; I don't want to give up on a long relationship with someone that I absolutely love just to find out in the end that THAT is what I really wanted. That, coupled with the fact that I don't even have the motivation to start a 'new lifestyle' -- never had any of those feelings for a guy -- makes this decision VERY hard.

I've always been a "don't know until you try" kinda guy. I listen to advice but until it "clicks" in my head (usually by me falling on my face and breaking some teeth!) it is all conjecture.

[allbimyself]

Nothing, you are getting awfully hung up on a label. Sexuality is a Gestalt, not a dichotomy, not even a trichotomy. There are as many ways to be a sexual person as there are people. Yes, we have the three main labels (some monosexuals would only recognize two) but there is wide variation within any single label -- maybe that's why there are so many sub-labels under homosexual. For me, if someone requires a label, it's fairly simple. Do you have sex or want to have sex with only the opposite gender? Then ur str8. Do you have sex or want to have sex with only the same gender? Then ur gay. Do you have sex or want to have sex with both genders? Then ur bisexual. End of discussion.

Love, feelings, etc. don't enter into it in my mind. We are talking biSEXuality.

[suegeorge]

Nothing, you are getting awfully hung up on a label. Sexuality is a Gestalt, not a dichotomy, not even a trichotomy. There are as many ways to be a sexual person as there are people. Yes, we have the three main labels (some monosexuals would only recognize two) but there is wide variation within any single label -- maybe that's why there are so many sub-labels under homosexual. For me, if someone requires a label, it's fairly simple. Do you have sex or want to have sex with only the opposite gender? Then ur str8. Do you have sex or want to have sex with only the same gender? Then ur gay. Do you have sex or want to have sex with both genders? Then ur bisexual. End of discussion.

Love, feelings, etc. don't enter into it in my mind. We are talking biSEXuality.


That's obviously true for you, allbimyself. And lots of men - especially men, but not only - only want the sex with the same gender, not the emotions.
But for many people, it isn't true. Sure, the sex part of it, the desire, is important for most of us but emotions, falling in love, and so forth are also part of bisexuality - as they are for straight and gay people too.
It doesn't, to me, sound like Nothingtoseehere is gay - he loves his girlfriend. Perhaps your sex life does need spicing up, NTSH. But there is another aspect, I think, which does happen to bi people and has happened to me in the past. You get so frustrated by your unfulfilled desire to have same-sex that that is all you really want. But when you do have it, lots of it, then you realise that you aren't really almost gay at all. Essentially, same-sex has become "normal", like straight sex really. The mystery has gone out of it and you can look at people as people again. You touch on that yourself in your post.
How does your girlfriend feel about your actually having sex with men while she is in a relationship with you? Is that completely out of the question?
Don't know if any of that helps?! Sorry!

Bisexuality and beyond (http://suegeorgewrites.blogspot.com)

[NothingToSeeHere]

How does your girlfriend feel about your actually having sex with men while she is in a relationship with you? Is that completely out of the question?
Don't know if any of that helps?! Sorry!

Thanks suegeorge! Every bit of information helps me at this stage, so YES, it helps.

Sex w/ men while with her is completely outta the question. That is something that I could never do, let alone how she feels about it.

I've always had to have a "connection" when having sex ... sex was never just sex with me ("self-sex", on the other hand { no pun intended }, is just that. Sex without any emotion aspects -- no guilt, no feeling of 'please your partner before yourself'). I have a feeling (again, who the hell knows, I've never actually had the opportunity standing in front of me, but ...) that I couldn't actually go thru with it. However, I'm starting to think that is my mental defense system (MDS for short :) ) kicking in not allowing me to entertain the possibilities. In fantasy; faceless, nameless, speechless sex with a man is TOTALY exciting, but in reality ... I don't know ... just doesn't feel "right". (In my defense, NOTHING "feels" right anymore. I don't know what is truly "right", or a lie disguising itself as "right")

I feel like I have to go by the old saying "If you love something ...." and that PISSES ME OFF! I *REFUSE* to accept that my sexuality is the piece that defines me. I will have to give up on all the dreams I've set for myself (or are they "false" dreams that I've come up with to ignore the truth ... F**K, this is annoying) -- things like having a child w/ the woman I love, growing old and becoming 'grandma' and 'grandpa' ... what the hell is life without those things (just my opinion -- these things are important to me). And yes, I know, gay people can adopt and whatnot, but it just won't BE the same. Also, I don't want to raise a child in an environment like that. DON'T GET ME WRONG, I'm am SO happy that there are people out there that can (gay/lesbien couples, that is) do that -- takes courage and strength. But it is something that I just don't subscribe to personally.

Sorry, REALLY bad day. Never ending questions ... meanwhile, the greatest girl I know waits in the shadow for the bottom to drop out. What the hell kind of person am I ....

[csrakate]

Please see my response to you in the "can bisexuals be married" thread.

[allbimyself]

Sue,

You have totally misunderstood me. I was speaking strictly about the label "bisexual." I never said bisexuals couldn't fall in love with someone of the same sex. But it also certainly true that not making an emotional connection with either sex does not make one NOT bisexual.

[LoveLion]

If I were in your position NothingToSeeHere, I would just push your erges for men aside for now, you sound like you have a girlfriend that loves you and it sounds like you lover her, she sounds really understanding and isnt that more important to sex? Right now I think you have a great relationship (form what Iv read) and I think you are putting to much into sex. If you end up single again then that might be a good opportunity to experiment with a man but for now I think its silly to worry about it and I would think it would be even more silly to give up or risk your relationship for sex of any kind.

[tommyswing]

I remember well the confusion your going through. I have found what sex I'm attracted to now may not be be the same in a few months. I also remember when I was focused on sex with men my hetro feeling would get weaker. So at one point I was convinced I was gay, but then I would refocus on women and my desire for men would decrease. It would have been a mistake to try structure my life on my present feelings, because they are subject to change
I know this causes a lot of anxiety but I would suggest you give it time as your feelings can shift. Your sexuallity could be the fluid type. Good luck with it all.

[halfofwhat]

NTSH, I totally know what you're going through right now because I am experiencing the same exact thing (and have been for the past year to a strong degree, but I have questioned my sexuality to some extent since I was a teen). I am undergoing therapy for OCD, and this is my particular obsession. Most days, not a minute goes by (no exageration) that I don't question my sexuality...I've looked at it from nearly every conceivable angle, and most angles at least 20 times. I usually end up at the same juncture: yes, gay porn does turn me on. Yes, I do recognize that there are lots of really good looking men out there. But I've never wanted to be in a relationship with another man; it's always just about the sex thing. And, like you, I am not a "sex for sex's sake" kind of guy. I was never a one night stand kinda guy; I typically need to have a secure bond with the person before I have sex with her.

I've always been shy and insecure. I have had sexual difficulties with women at times, too, which doesn't help my situation at all. I often wonder if I was even aroused...but rationally, I was thinking far too much at the time, and that doesn't help erections at all. I often wonder if I would have the same problems with men.

Like you, when I think about actually going through with it, there is a huge push back in my brain...a large amount of negativity, like "no, don't do it." But that's not enough...I wonder if it's just my brain protecting me (like you put it).

It also doesn't help that it seems my feelings for women have faded away, as if I have no other choice now to accept that I am gay. It would destroy my lifelong desire to have an amazing girlfriend to love and share my life with, probably marry (though I'm afraid of marriage due to the high divorce rate, and fear that I would realize I am actually gay and have to break it off). Even when I have been most miserable, it was the hope that I would meet an amazing girl that kept me afloat, and now I don't even have that.

As you can see, we have a lot in common. As horrible as this situation is, it's good to see I'm not alone in it.

[someotherguy]

Part of being straight is all what goes into not being gay, and part of being gay is to not be straight. When you're bi you don't get to be either not straight or not gay. This matters because the main thing about group identity is what you aren't, in regards to us being better than them. It has nothing to do with sexuality. It is about binary choices. Love it or leave it. If you're not with us you're against us. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. There is a need in groups to distill decisions into binary choices of doing either this or that. When you don't follow that premise you upset the pattern, and piss off both sides by not taking either side. It's the same thing in politics if you are neither left nor right, and in sports if you don't care which team wins the game.

Being bisexual is usually described as having an attraction to both sexes, but it may be more accurate to say it is the lack of aversion to either, and from that follows a lack of aversion that underpins both homosexuality and heterosexuality. It's not who you love it's who you don't hate, that causes problems.

When I am with a man I call that gay sex and when I am with a woman I call that straight sex. I never chose gay or straight for an identity because neither one allows both. Both is what came naturally to me and so I always figured the labels were arbitrary and due to social restrictions, but did not reflect how people were actually, only perhaps how they have become conditioned, not wanting to be subjected to hostility. Like with every other aspect of social life, for any subject you will find a range of opinions, and you can choose to wander lost through them all or to step along your own path.

[intuit2]

Don't know how i missed out on this thread...good thing someotherguy picked it up again.

NTSH, i know exactly how you feel. Just the idea of having attractions to men sent me into a tailspin in college...and left me wondering in the back of my mind for 20 years if i was really gay, despite the great relationships i've had with women...including my wife. Whatever the cause of that fear, it was the fear alone that made me think it and deny part of myself. It was only when i learned to let go of the fear, accept my physical attractions to men and place them side by side with my attractions to women that i could stop obsessing about this question. Once i acted on my attractions just a couple of years ago, it confirmed this new understanding of myself (long story...won't go there now, but yes, she knows). I, like a few of you described, am attracted physically and romantically to women, but only physically with men. I loved the physical aspect of being with a man...but would much rather go out and have a beer with a buddy than languor in bed and talk about 'sweet nothings'. I don't want a boyfriend or male life partner, but that sure as hell don't make me straight. As opposed to what i've read from others in other threads, for me, the capability of falling in love IS about the gender, but i've realized there are many ways of being bi...and i think this combination you've described is just one of them.

Like you indicated, I also always thought that i needed to know someone before getting into bed with them...maybe that was just a hang up i had because of the denial i had been in for so long. Funny thing, i feel my attraction to women has strengthened because i've finally been able to accept all of me as a sexual being...not just one part. (my wife is much happier now as a result). BTW, there is something in the middle of totally anonymous sex and totally committal sex...isn't that what friends with benefits/fuck friends/one night stands for?

If your girlfriend is really ok with your bisexuality and supportive, then let yourself just be. There are a lot of others who are in similar situations. I thank others in this thread who also added their wisdom about it being about the fact that when you feel you can't have something, it makes it all the more desirable. I know deep in my heart that part of the reason i am so obsessed with the idea of guys these days is because i am married and can't have a guy right now. I realize with this type of imbalance, i can't be objective about the gay/bi question in anyway because i have no neutral ground to stand on. I've been with women all my life and only allowed myself the indulgence of men much more recently, so of course my desire for them is in high gear. So what i've decided to do is just stop asking the question you are asking because i know, deep down, it is actually irrelevant at this point.

[NothingToSeeHere]

NTSH, i know exactly how you feel. Just the idea of having attractions to men sent me into a tailspin in college...and left me wondering in the back of my mind for 20 years if i was really gay, despite the great relationships i've had with women...including my wife.

YIKES!?! 20 Years! I've been struggling with this for about a month and it already feels like 20 years! My God, how did you handle it? (And I'm starting to think I'll be in the same boat).

Thanks for the response; every reply opens my mind up a little more (however, I'm very cautious abouting allowing my mind to be MADE up ... not something I can get from an Internet forum :P )

I am saying to myself "Look, this is who you are. You will just have to deal with it in fantasies and daydreams -- nothing more." Works for a little while, but obviously not as effective as I've hoped. Some days (today being one of them) I'm at my wits end; for example:

Should I just break up with my girl and sit in a room alone not having to worry about hurting anyone? What about swearing off sex and just live in a fantasy world (again, the theme "don't hurt anyone but yourself" is pretty dominate).

I HATE these thoughts, and I feel like I'm taking the "easy" way out. Funny .... "easy" .... leave a (pretty) good life with comfort, security, and friendship for a life devoid of love, comfort, security. How can I even say that's the "easy" way out.

Or ....

Is it REALLY the life I want, and my self-loathing "easy" way out is really my body telling me that A DIFFERENT life (read: with a different gender) is the "right" way out ... even if it will hurt those I love so dear (my gf first and foremost.). How come that "mystery" life is consuming my every thought? How come the thought of "I could NEVER love and hug and kiss ... a man" isn't satisfying my questions? ... Maybe it isn't true and my mind isn't allowing me to entertain those thoughts. Am I just hiding the fact that I don't want a new life -- hurting those around me only to find out that THAT life (gay) isn't the one I really wanted?

OMG, here I go again. Suffice to say, today is a bad day ....

[BiMukMan]

Hi! I've just looked at this thread and wanted to add a note of encouragement. I've played straight with women all my life and never did anything as an adult with another man until a year ago. However, I've always had some attraction to men, also, even as a child. After finally actively exploring this side for a year now, here's most of what I've learned about myself:

1) I am definitely bisexual, not homosexual, with a 90% preference for women.
2) I'm not attracted to men in a general sense, but I do love to play with their equipment and get a good reaction from them. I have no romantic feelings or physical attraction to them otherwise.
3) Aside from the appreciation of men's equipment, I love being with a man and woman at the same time. I prefer married couples who are in love with each other; when I'm with such a couple I love them together as a unit, almost. And that's the second major aspect of my bisexuality. The emotional component is only there when I'm with a couple, rather than just a guy.

I went through all kinds of mixed feelings about this for years. When I finally played with another man, it was a huge release and I found it fairly easy to accept my new 'status'.

I think that you should hang in there with your girlfriend, but at the same time maybe find a gay or bi friend to explore with. If you like it, play with him once in a while. But I think ultimately you're going to stay on the 'straight side' as a lifestyle choice.

I've come to hold the opinion that committed, loving sex is the best kind by far, and I can only really have that with a woman. I suspect that you'll find that you're the same way.

Whatever the answer is, I urge you to proceed slowly and carefully and not get frustrated. There are a lot more men that go through this than you'd ever expect. I hope it works out the way you want it to.

Best wishes!

[NothingToSeeHere]

Thank BiMukMan; I appreciate the encouragment.

I wish I was a confident about myself -- but I'm not. I think I'm just kidding myself. Today is a very "gay" day indeed ... perhaps they all are and I don't want to see it. I think I'm deciding today, because I can't continue to do this shit to myself ... and most importantly, my girl.

I think I'm gonna just call it off. I will absolutely hate myself, and she will cry, cry, and cry more. She was just starting to accept this "new me" and it will blindside her. But I can't keep stringing her alone, promising "don't worry, I won't (one day) wake up totally gay and want to be with a man in EVERY sense". Screw that, I can take my own personal pain -- I WILL NOT make her go through it also. She is very supportive, and I KNOW she will see me through things, but I think I have to let her go find someone who isn't fucking questioning himself everyday as to: Who do I love? Do I love women? Do I love men? Can I be in a relationship with these urges to "the other side" (again, today, I don't think there really is "another side" -- I think there is just "one side" and that is the one I'm ignoring)

Sorry for the downer; I just can't take this crap anymore.

Thank you to all the wonderful people on this site; I was trying to cling to some hope that I don't have to destroy my life and hers, but alas, I just can't anymore. I truly believe that bisexuality exists (never questioned it, just have a much deeper understanding now). I must be using "the Bi road" in order to get to Gaytown.

Again, thanks everyone -- and good luck!

EDIT: Reading that back, it looks like I'm looking for sympathy. I just wanted to let the few people who knew me (only a short while) to know what's going on and my path. Oh my God, Tonite is going to be horrible. Maybe I should wait until after Thanksgiving. BTW, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone -- enjoy your families and friends.

[someotherguy]

Well, I can see why you think you're gay. You certainly have a dramatic flair for emotional struggles. I hope you won't put yourself and others through unnecessary upheavals by acting impulsively according to what your imagination supposes will be their reactions. Sometimes we can aggravate situations by letting assumptions leap ahead creating mischief. What if it turns out you are just plain sexual, without labels, and nobody really cares one way or the other? It might not "mean" anything that you aren't straight. It could be you are quite gay but you still like women, just like there are straight men who still like sex with guys.

My point is to step back and remember to be WITH people, instead of alone in your personal torment peeping out through the eyeholes in your skull. Let your friends, folks, etc. take things in stride. Don't decide for them or force the direction it all takes. These stepping stones of discovery need not be cliffs to jump off.

Behind anguish is fear, and that responds well to deep breaths, good music, and a sense of humor. Allow your life to be as comical as it needs to be in order to avoid emotional torment.

I've seen many people whose tendency to preempt reactions twisted them so tight that others did end up reacting badly, but not to the original news, only to how twisted and uptight the person had made themselves. Are you giving your girlfriend the small bit of news that you are maybe probably sort of at least mostly gay, or are you handing her your angst like a ball or barbed wire?

Just a few words to weigh..

[meta23]

Consider the following categories:

- The genders you are sexually attracted to.
- The genders you actually have sex with on an ongoing basis (when you get the chance).
- The genders you have had sex with at some time.
- The genders you have ongoing emotional relationships with.
- The orientation you identify as to others; the label you use.

Your answer will not necessarily be consistent for every question. So you need to decide what question you're asking before you can really decide what the answer is.

[DiamondDog]

Consider the following categories:

- The genders you are sexually attracted to.
- The genders you actually have sex with on an ongoing basis (when you get the chance).
- The genders you have had sex with at some time.
- The genders you have ongoing emotional relationships with.
- The orientation you identify as to others; the label you use.

Your answer will not necessarily be consistent for every question. So you need to decide what question you're asking before you can really decide what the answer is.

Good advice meta23.

IMO NothingToSeeHere, you seem to be anaylzing this way too much.

Just take a deep breath and before you do anything you'll regret just know that others too (like me and many others here) have fluid sexuality just like you do. I've had times where I thought I was het and where I thought I was gay and where I've been pretty equal but I know that I'm neither het or gay.

[halfofwhat]

NTSH, again, you write as if you're reading my mind. From one obsessive to another, I would advice you to NOT take drastic measures, such as breaking off a relationship, in a moment of despair. It might relieve the pain momentarily, but like any compulsive action, the pain will come back in equal force. You will replace your fear of hurting her with more self-loathing and fear of being alone, and you will not find your answer, because you will lock yourself away into your mind even further.

Trust me, because this is what I do. Not a minute passes by in which I am not questioning and analyzing my own sexuality. One moment, I am so convinced I am gay. Another, I am convinced there is no way I can be gay and I have to be straight. Another moment, I'm pretty certain I am bi. What we are clearly focused on is what could be and not what is. I don't look at my enjoyment of gay porn as just enjoyment of gay porn, I look at it as a sign that I am gay, and the more I allow myself to enjoy it, the more gay I will become. I don't look at other good looking guys as just good looking guys, I look at other good looking guys and think I must want to be with them, and think that I *have* to be with them, because otherwise I would just be in denial. None of this makes me feel good, and it just persists and persists without end.

I'm in therapy for OCD. I've spent a lot of time on a forum about sexual OCD where people fear they are gay when they really are not. Everything you say matches what they say...I don't want to give you false hope, I want to tell you that you are pretty obviously obsessive about this, and you may very well be obsessive compulsive. I would highly suggest you seek out a therapist, preferably one who uses Cognitive Behavioral Therapy as a method of treatment, and preferably one who has experience in sexual issues, anxiety disorders, and OCD. Their job is not to tell you whether you are gay or straight, it is to help you see your obsessions for what they are, along with all of your mental distortions that go along with them. It is something that would benefit you greatly, trust me.

I know where you are right now. I know it's not easy to deal with. I know that it feels like it will never end. You are in a horrible state of mind right now, and that is no state of mind to make such huge decisions. Please, for the sake of yourself and everyone around you, don't make any brash decisions. Seek help. I know it's not always easy to smile, but remember that just as happiness is never permanent, pain is never everlasting. We need both to truly appreciate life.

[doingitforus]

Thanks suegeorge! Every bit of information helps me at this stage, so YES, it helps.

Sex w/ men while with her is completely outta the question. That is something that I could never do, let alone how she feels about it.

I've always had to have a "connection" when having sex ... sex was never just sex with me ("self-sex", on the other hand { no pun intended }, is just that. Sex without any emotion aspects -- no guilt, no feeling of 'please your partner before yourself'). I have a feeling (again, who the hell knows, I've never actually had the opportunity standing in front of me, but ...) that I couldn't actually go thru with it. However, I'm starting to think that is my mental defense system (MDS for short :) ) kicking in not allowing me to entertain the possibilities. In fantasy; faceless, nameless, speechless sex with a man is TOTALY exciting, but in reality ... I don't know ... just doesn't feel "right". (In my defense, NOTHING "feels" right anymore. I don't know what is truly "right", or a lie disguising itself as "right")

I feel like I have to go by the old saying "If you love something ...." and that PISSES ME OFF! I *REFUSE* to accept that my sexuality is the piece that defines me. I will have to give up on all the dreams I've set for myself (or are they "false" dreams that I've come up with to ignore the truth ... F**K, this is annoying) -- things like having a child w/ the woman I love, growing old and becoming 'grandma' and 'grandpa' ... what the hell is life without those things (just my opinion -- these things are important to me). And yes, I know, gay people can adopt and whatnot, but it just won't BE the same. Also, I don't want to raise a child in an environment like that. DON'T GET ME WRONG, I'm am SO happy that there are people out there that can (gay/lesbien couples, that is) do that -- takes courage and strength. But it is something that I just don't subscribe to personally.

Sorry, REALLY bad day. Never ending questions ... meanwhile, the greatest girl I know waits in the shadow for the bottom to drop out. What the hell kind of person am I ....

NTSH

Man listen to me, we have maybe an identical mindset.

Here are my thoughts.
What this is all about is FREEDOM. Freedom to me is maybe greatest thing to me that anyone could experience or have on this planet. I didnt have alot as a kid. When I was a small kid the boy next door decided he would let me know what a blowjob was. Being curious kids a few times sucked on each other. I liked it but felt very ashamed about it. Basically it remained as a thought sometimes and I didnt like thinking about it. As I grew older and was gaining more and more freedom in life I started to study FREEDOM IT SELF.

The USA, freedom never came cheap for our country. There was and is a price to pay. Number one rule freedom doesnt come easy. I noticed as I was growing up alot of people do not even have the freedom to make up thier own mind. They let other people, even people that they dont know make cause a terrible amount of stress, work, shame, self destruction, guilt, even poor health on a you or me or anyone who cant think for themselfs. This happens ESP in rural America. Maybe its been about 6 years since I again studied my personal thoughts about having an open mind. After making sure I still had a mind :) I noticed something while gradeing myself.

I made note again how much I love myself for getting an early belief that I would not judge a person so quickly and respect anyone walking this planet for thier own choices to do what ever they wanted too. I think this believe came from living scared under the cold war. I thought to myself if someone didnt want to be a part of society and be a bum or waste thier lives then that was thier choice. Who was I to judge them?????????

Well it hit me kinda hard. One thing that I didnt have an open mind about was sex with another man. I got a little pissed about at started to casually consider if I should go ahead and open that possibilty in my life.

Well I have and one of the demands that I set for myself that the first man who I had such a close relationship with would be with someone who was a friend first and that I could say I truely loved. After that whatever happens happens. I would at least free my mind to experience all the massage, masterbation, teasing and sucking that my body could physically take.

So the answer to your question is this. Your not gay as far as I see it. If I wanted to be gay I would have a steady boyfriend around for sure. Did I say I love women and desire to be married to one? I have no desire to many things a gay man would do. Ofcourse someone who can be so free about themselfs and be openly gay is extreamly fasinating to me! Now that is some display of freedom wouldnt you think?

So you see I dont have a problem with my mind wandering and dreaming about teasing another guy in bed as he begs and shakes around crying for more attention from me. Its a place in my mind that I love to visit sometimes. Its no one elses business and for me its private. The important thing is I have found at least someway to free myself and thats the most important thing. The small details or many feelings about being gay or becoming gay or how bi I am or how gay i might be or if someone doesnt understand is not a problem for someone who has a truely free and open mind. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? As long as its in the name of CAREFULL :flag2: FREEDOM. I stopped beating myself about this along time ago. I hope soon you can do the same. What ever you decide I hope you can find a free place in your mind about all of this and dont blame yourself. You love freedom and its your right to be free!

A book i liked about 10 years ago. Freedom from the ties that bind- Guy Findly