I don't want my bisexual rights ....

[Long Duck Dong]

many times I have seen the big song and dance about bisexual rights and honestly I don't want my bisexual rights...... they are nothing but a way of telling the world that I want to be put on a pedestal and stared at like a circus animal

I don't want a bisexual bar for me to drink in... if I can't socialize with my friends ( bi/ straight/gay/les/trans ) in a bar, cos of discrimination, then I will not take my friends back to that bar
but nor will I say to my friends, that we need to go to a bisexual bar, cos I am bisexual, cos a lot of my friends are not bisexual...and they don't have a gay/ les / trans / straight bar, so why should I be different
I go to a bar to drink with friends.... their sexuality is not gonna affect the way my beer tastes and nor is the setting of the bar....

I don't want a health system to treat me differently cos I am bisexual, I simply want a doctor that will treat my illnesses with a working form of cure or relief....I don't want a doctor that may be forced to treat me with kid gloves cos I am bisexual, cos that may imped my chances of getting treated fully and quickly

I don't want a support group to help me deal with anti gay / les / bi / trans parents, as I don't need support... its my parents that have the issues, not me... and pushing them to change their views of me, is not helping matters....if my parents cant see beyond my sexuality, then they are the ones that need to get help....as I am not a one dimensional person.... there is more to me than the people that my parents will never meet and the happenings in my bedroom that my parents will never know about....
I am not a social disease or a stigma, I do not need support or help to be who I am and nor do I need to change the worlds view of me, they can think what they want..... but they are not paying my bills, cooking my meals, doing my washing, and wiping my ass....

I do not need a bisexual area group meeting...... my range of friendship covers everybody, not just a exclusive group of people.....I am out to make friends and have fun...not to size up potential bed partners......
most of the people I know, I will never meet, but we live around the world, sharing different ideas, understandings, knowledge... but we also share a sense of humour, fun and caring....I don't need a bisexual area group meeting to enjoy meeting people.....I just need a smile....

I am bisexual, its a big part of who I am but only a small part of what I do.....
I do not wish to be set apart from the rest of the world because I conduct myself in a certain way in private....
I don't want to try and force a world to accept me, when they are already finding enuf reasons to dislike me without me getting in their face...

I am human and part of the human race.... and thats all I want....I don't want to be set apart as a * different species of human *........cos thats simply putting a bullseye on my back.....

so to the people that are doing a big song and dance about bisexual rights yadda yadda.... don't call out for my support or help..... I am too busy standing beside my friends, the straights, gays, les, trans, bi, that need a friendly face, a smile and a hug

I would sooner give a hug and a smile to any person that needs it and make them feel like they belong, rather purse the fight for * bi rights * and isolate people further cos they are not bisexual, like me

one set of bisexual rights, never used, in perfect condition, free to any person that wants to place another dividing line between themselves and the rest of the world

[AdamKadmon43]

I think that you have just about summed it up.

You have put into words (and quite eloquently) a great deal of my own thoughts.

I can not think of much to add to what you have said.

But ...... LOOK OUT.... I am reasonably certain that (if I know them as well as I think that I do) some of them are about to slam the hell out of you.

Good luck and keep the faith.

Adam

[JoyJoyHollywood]

Yeah...I have to say Long Duck Dong I agree with you on a few of those points. I mean, if someone finds out that I like their girlfriend and beats the (expletive) out of me.....are any rights I may claim besides my human rights going to make me feel any better?

I believe that a certain amount of visibility and social action is warranted and good for the human race in order to possibly bring about a more mature and educated view of Homosexuality and Bisexuality, especially if it helps reduce homophobia. But, I don't want any rights that others can't claim.

However, I also believe that the social movements focused on Bisexuality are not motivated by a need to declare a seperation from any part of humanity, but instead offer a moving force that has a unique focus on some issues that Bisexuals may deal with that the Gay Rights movement alone doesn't quite experiance. So, it's a good thing.

I think maybe it may come down to a matter of intensity. Some of us are less intense in our involvement with our respective sexual communities. And they should be allowed respect for their position. Some of us are much more active in that aspect. And they should be given the same amount of respect too. But, most importantly, I think that we should all maybe try not to take ourselves so seriously and also try not to feel superior to anyone else in regard to what amount of involvement they take either way.

[TaylorMade]

LDD, you forgot something:

http://z.about.com/d/comicbooks/1/0/6/4/FirstFlame.jpg

Flame on!

:bigrin:

*Taylor*

[anne27]

After all...

If gay and lesbian (and bisexual) people are given civil rights, then everyone will want them! ~Author unknown

[m.in.heels&hose]

Hey there LDD

Not much more i can say or add!!

other than "KUDOS to you" i couldnt have never said it as well as you have here


m.in.heels&hose

[Aravanww]

I like it all... but for one thing...

I don't want "bisexual" rights.. I don't think we need Gay rights, lez rights, trans rights straight rights or anything more than simple HUMAN rights. It should not be ok to discriminate against anyone for ANY reason.

That is the way it should be.. I know I am dreaming here.. but hey.. what good is life without dreams?

[domill]

I am bisexual, its a big part of who I am but only a small part of what I do.....

So true.

I'm a guy. I'm European. I'm a Frenchman. I live in the UK. I believe in tolerance, acceptance, I understand many people have their own (different) beliefs, different ways of apprehending the world, and I'm ok with that. I like people who have a good sense of humour. I like people who are curious. I have political opinions. I like kids. I like art. I love my friends. I'm a humanist etc.

And yes, now you mention it, I'm bisexual, but unlike many other things, it's not something I chose. It is indeed a big part of who I am, because it's what makes me different from most people. Let's not make a big deal out of it. I'm not ashamed of it, only I don't tell people because I don't think it's any of their business. And I don't want to be seen as "the bi guy" because I think I'm much more than that.

Fans of Little Britain know how ridiculous it is to be "the only gay in the village".

Anyway thanks LDD, I thought your post was a good reminder.

[AdamKadmon43]

I sometimes suspect that if people can ever get past the happy little "feel good" notion that Diversity is something that we need to celebrate, and start viewing it as what it actually is, then we shall all be much better off and much more able to get along with each other.

"Diversity is a necessary evil that we all must learn to live with."

I have not the slighest notion where all that came from or what relevance it has to any of this, but it sounded good at the moment.

Probably the end result of a bad day at work and too much scotch.

Adam

[MarieDelta]

I have to weigh in here I can't resist myself.

Rights, we all have them and we all use our rights everyday.

But there are some rights that have in the past been taken away from certain people because of the way the present.

I am not the prettiest woman, I know that. If I make waves at work I expect that will be the end of me.

Here's the thing: Transfolk up until quite recently have been fired for their gender presentation, especially if they aren't passable. They may be competent at their job and a very dependable employee, but once you ask someone to switch from calling you "him" to "her" or worse yet use the bathroom appropriate to your gender. You'll find yourself quietly escorted out.
It's happened, to people I know.

They find an excuse, any excuse and use it to fire you. Even in California where we are supposedly protected. You see the thing is you still have to prove discrimination.

So even protection according to gender/ sexual expression isn't a guarantee that you won't suffer for being "out".

What's the answer?

I'm not sure there is one. We (as humans) need to find a way to live and let live. Maybe even give the other guy a little bit of room to breathe.

[Herbwoman39]

"Birds of a feather flock together". My mother used to say that to me constantly when she was trying to influence my choice of friends, partners, etc. It's a cliche, I know but cliches are here for a reason. They work.

The thing is, if we remove bisexual support groups from the picture, where will we turn when we need to find someone like ourselves? When I was first coming out, I deeply craved interaction with someone, ANYONE who was bisexual. Just so I wouldn't feel so horribly alone.

Many human beings need social interaction with other like-minded people. So removing social and support groups would, in my opinion, be disasterous, for the new Bis who need that loving support during the difficult, awkward stages of learning what bisexuality means for them.

Sure, it IS the other people that have the issues with sexuality, but that doesn't make it hurt any less.

[Long Duck Dong]

hugs ya herbwoman, lol

I am not against support groups or social groups ..... they do have their place.....

but there is a difference between supporting a person and pushing people to the front of the crowd.......

a support group should support people and a social group should be a social group..... and a activist group should remain a activist group

the moment you blur the lines, you alienate the very people you wanna talk with

I have never seen a social or support group for LGBT that can leave the * meat market * / * political issues * / * gays over there, les over there, trans over there, bis over here and straights not allowed * BS at the door

I am tired of the * US v's THEM * stuff.....

most people go to LGBT events cos they wanna to make friends and talk and laugh...and not cos they are LGBT people.....

[dafydd]

many times I have seen the big song and dance about bisexual rights and honestly I don't want my bisexual rights...... they are nothing but a way of telling the world that I want to be put on a pedestal and stared at like a circus animal

I don't want a bisexual bar for me to drink in... if I can't socialize with my friends ( bi/ straight/gay/les/trans ) in a bar, cos of discrimination, then I will not take my friends back to that bar
but nor will I say to my friends, that we need to go to a bisexual bar, cos I am bisexual, cos a lot of my friends are not bisexual...and they don't have a gay/ les / trans / straight bar, so why should I be different
I go to a bar to drink with friends.... their sexuality is not gonna affect the way my beer tastes and nor is the setting of the bar....

I don't want a health system to treat me differently cos I am bisexual, I simply want a doctor that will treat my illnesses with a working form of cure or relief....I don't want a doctor that may be forced to treat me with kid gloves cos I am bisexual, cos that may imped my chances of getting treated fully and quickly

I don't want a support group to help me deal with anti gay / les / bi / trans parents, as I don't need support... its my parents that have the issues, not me... and pushing them to change their views of me, is not helping matters....if my parents cant see beyond my sexuality, then they are the ones that need to get help....as I am not a one dimensional person.... there is more to me than the people that my parents will never meet and the happenings in my bedroom that my parents will never know about....
I am not a social disease or a stigma, I do not need support or help to be who I am and nor do I need to change the worlds view of me, they can think what they want..... but they are not paying my bills, cooking my meals, doing my washing, and wiping my ass....

I do not need a bisexual area group meeting...... my range of friendship covers everybody, not just a exclusive group of people.....I am out to make friends and have fun...not to size up potential bed partners......
most of the people I know, I will never meet, but we live around the world, sharing different ideas, understandings, knowledge... but we also share a sense of humour, fun and caring....I don't need a bisexual area group meeting to enjoy meeting people.....I just need a smile....

I am bisexual, its a big part of who I am but only a small part of what I do.....
I do not wish to be set apart from the rest of the world because I conduct myself in a certain way in private....
I don't want to try and force a world to accept me, when they are already finding enuf reasons to dislike me without me getting in their face...

I am human and part of the human race.... and thats all I want....I don't want to be set apart as a * different species of human *........cos thats simply putting a bullseye on my back.....

so to the people that are doing a big song and dance about bisexual rights yadda yadda.... don't call out for my support or help..... I am too busy standing beside my friends, the straights, gays, les, trans, bi, that need a friendly face, a smile and a hug

I would sooner give a hug and a smile to any person that needs it and make them feel like they belong, rather purse the fight for * bi rights * and isolate people further cos they are not bisexual, like me

one set of bisexual rights, never used, in perfect condition, free to any person that wants to place another dividing line between themselves and the rest of the world

Oi Vay!

First of all LGBT rights are human rights.
You may not want a bi bar to drink in, but perhaps you are not into public displays of affection. In that case with your boyf/girlf it doesn't matter where you are. For me, I feel uncomfortable kissing my boyf in a sports bar, less so kissing my girlf in a gay bar. bi bars would solve that problem I guess. But I have never been in one, nor do i know of any.
I understand your points, and there are many people for who their sexuality presents no problems in there life, and is not a barrier.
However, there are many bi folks around the world who have been attacked, lost their jobs, been humiliated, bullied or find that they can't marry the one they love, can't visit their same sex partner in hospital when they are very ill, don't qualify for insurance or are not allowed to book a double room in a hotel.

"I do not wish to be set apart from the rest of the world because I conduct myself in a certain way in private....
I don't want to try and force a world to accept me, when they are already finding enuf reasons to dislike me without me getting in their face..."

These statements contradict each other. You don't want to be treated differently but you don't want to stand up for that right. If you dislike the way people set you apart for what you do in private (for me in public as well) then tell them.

You say that the world can think what it wants. If all it did was think then there wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately the world attacks and murders and hits out and cuts your head off for being bi. If you don't want this to happen then you have to be favour of LGBT rights. Until I can hold my boyfriend's hand in any street in the world then it ain't right. And I doubt you would not want bi rights if you lived in Iran or Pakistan or any of the 70 other countries where you would face imprisonment or be executed for posting on this forum.

anyway thanks for introducing the topic. appreciate your viewpoints. interesting.

D

[darkeyes]

There is no contradiction between my bisexual rights and my human rights. One is merely a part of the other. It is simple..as a bisexual, and therefore as part of humanity, I have the right to live in peace and freedom, unhindered and unmolested by any (unless I allow them.. tee hee) so long as my actions harm no other....

[captslaprock]

THE ENTIRE CROWD STAND & ROARS FOR LDD

[dafydd]

THE ENTIRE CROWD STAND & ROARS FOR LDD

I really don't think so.
A part of the crowd is sitting unblinking into the light, and thinking "hey what if I disagree?"

d

[Apleasureseeker]

I'm only bicurious, so I may not be qualified to talk, but more & more I get the feeling that bisexuality is something you DO, and only rarely something you ARE. Most people I've met have a hetero personality or a gay personality. That is theeir identity. It's based on what kind of person they relate to EMOTIONALLY. all of us have hands, mouths & genitals & any of us can pleasure & enjoy any other of us. A gay man won't turn straight if he sleeps with a woman, and a straight man wont turn gay if he has sex with another man. I have met a few, very few solidly bisexual people--they tend to be very young & usually settle out on on side of the fence or another in a few years.

[DiamondDog]

I'm only bicurious, so I may not be qualified to talk, but more & more I get the feeling that bisexuality is something you DO, and only rarely something you ARE. Most people I've met have a hetero personality or a gay personality. That is theeir identity. It's based on what kind of person they relate to EMOTIONALLY. all of us have hands, mouths & genitals & any of us can pleasure & enjoy any other of us. A gay man won't turn straight if he sleeps with a woman, and a straight man wont turn gay if he has sex with another man. I have met a few, very few solidly bisexual people--they tend to be very young & usually settle out on on side of the fence or another in a few years.

What if you are sexually attracted and fall in love with both genders and you want sex with both at the same time, and you've had sex with both seperately?

Also what if the idea of just being with one gender "forever" only makes you feel trapped and you feel your best and at balanced when you have both men and women in your life sexually and emotionally?

That's how I am, and I think that a lot of people on this site are this way too, so bisexual would describe us.

I don't buy into that your orientation is who you fall in love with since I know people who are bisexual who don't fall in love with their own gender at all but who love sex with them, and only fall in love with the opposite gender, and yet they're still bi and not heterosexual.

What's a hetero personality or a gay personality?

I don't think you can really put people's orientations into boxes like that even if they are based a lot on stereotypes like the macho football watching "a hole is a hole as long as it's a woman" heterosexual man, or the feminine/stereotypical queen, passive purely bottom homosexual man who is obsessed with design and being camp in his mannerisms/humor/speech.

[Aravanww]

[/QUOTE] I have met a few, very few solidly bisexual people--they tend to be very young & usually settle out on on side of the fence or another in a few years.[/QUOTE]

When I was younger I "explored" on both sides. I eventually married had a son and thought that I had indeed "chosen". but now after telling my wife that I like guys as well as girls... I find that I am happy being able to explore that and still know that I can play on either side of the fence. I don't see many people "settling" into one way or another.. bi is nothing but the freedom to do what is pleasurable at that moment... and the rights thereof are the human rights to seek that pleasure when the moment is right...

Human rights... we are all humans, bi gay lesbian trans or straight.. get rid of the lines and you will find that we all live in the same world.

Can You See?
See,
Sit and stare awhile,
Find a globe or map of the world,
Can you see?
Look,
Walk around and use your eyes,
There are people everywhere to meet,
Do you really know any of them?
Watch,
There are children everywhere,
All races and creeds,
What are we teaching them?
Try,
Imagine the world,
No borders or lines a few have drawn,
Do they really exist?
Ignore,
The lines of hate and mistrust,
Do we need them?
Can you See?

Victor Roland Pettengill
Copyright ©2007 Victor R. Pettengill

(used with permission)

[the mage]

A good speech....
and thats about it.
Put some thought into it and open your mind to those who still live in places where same sex activity gets you killed by stoning.
The label matters not, the action gets you killed.

You speak from wealth and democratic freedom.
Don't assume that the limited parameters of speech make the thought behind the words invalid. Freedom of sexuality should be a given for everyone.

[tom_uk]

I don't want a bisexual bar for me to drink in...
I don't want a health system to treat me differently cos I am bisexual
I don't want a support group
I do not need a bisexual area group

but you do want to be able to drink in a bar and not be excluded because of your sexual orintation

but you do not want to be treated the same and not be discriminated against

you dont want a support group? 714 posts! - well what are you doing here?

tom_uk

[deeTM]

LDD, I think I see your point and agree. DiamondDog, as usual you cut right to the heart of the matter.

We as bisexuals should be able to walk down the street and hold hands/kiss the ones that we are with male or female. Sadly, that's not how it is in any place that I'm aware of. Before I came out to myself, same sex couples made me uncomfortable and until I become completely comfortable with who I now realize I am then I will probably still be uncomfortable. I wanted a group of like minded people to interact with who would not judge me or be judged by me. If that's what a support group is then I'm glad to be a part of it. As some of the others have said, Bi rights should be equal to Human rights. Right now that's not really the case or I would probably already be "out" to the world at large. But then again, who's business is it but mine who's company I enjoy in the privacy of my bedroom. I don't run out and tell my friends what my wife and I did last night so why would I run out and tell anyone what I may do with a man?

Well, I'm rambling now. Back to the point. We are who we are and some people are not going to accept that. Somebody somewhere is going to hate me based simply on the fact that I am different from them.

Dee.

[Long Duck Dong]

lol tom uk, 714 cos I am here making friends, sharing, and laughing

its got nothing to do with the fact I am bisexual or that this is bisexual.com lol

now reread my original post and you will see that I am saying * NO, to have my life changed cos I am bisexual, * but people are posting in the thread, saying * yes to change cos bisexual people want to be known as bisexual *

if people want LGBT rights, to cover and change their education, healthcare, place of employment etc, thats fine, I am not against it.......
I am against it in MY LIFE ONLY

I live in a country where its illegal to discriminate about people on sexuality issues....but I see discrimination everyday.....and the last thing I want in MY life, is for legal LGBT rights, to fuel the fire of discrimination against bisexuals...and nor do I want to feel that I have to declare my bisexuality to people to get medical treatment, a education, a job, a drink at a bar

I am bisexual and I am celibate ( celibate meaning I do not have sexual contact with people )

now cos I am bisexual, I am classed as a medium/ high risk factor for aids / hiv / std....
cos I am celibate, I am classed as a nil risk factor for aids / hiv / std

I am bisexual which labels me as a people that sleeps with males and females and that is all people will see and so in some countries, I will get shot, for being bisexual.....despite the fact that I am not sleeping with anybody

the moment I am forced to declare my bisexuality in order to get a job, healthcare, employment, a drink at a bar....I am having to label myself as a high risk aids / hiv / std person.....despite the fact, I am actually a nil risk person

now do you see why I don't want LGBT rights in MY LIFE !!!!!!

[Lorcan]

You want all things to be equal LLD. But all things aren't. That's why i want bisexual rights.... until all things become equal.

Thats the same reason i want "affirmative action"...until all things become equal. If you think they are, you are living in a lily white world.

[AdamKadmon43]

-they tend to be very young & usually settle out on on side of the fence or another in a few years.
Having been consciously aware for the past 30 or so years that I am bisexual, perhaps you could enlighten me as to when I can expect to settle out on one side of the fence or another.

Adam

[Long Duck Dong]

roflmao, lorcan

I want everybody to have the same rights, without needing the labels.....


LGBT rights are not the SAME thru out the LGBT community

les and gays, have the right to a civil union in nz
trans don't have the right
bis do have the right to marry and have a civil union

les and gays have the right to have their partner stated as next of kin
trans have the right
bis have the right

les and gays have to face EXTRA scrutiny if adopting/ fostering kids
trans don't have the right to adopt . foster UNLESS they are family
bi's are treated as hetero and face no extra scrutiny

les and gays are allowed to have a gay pride parade
trans have the queens on the quay parade
bis have the bi pride parade


les and gays have the gay awareness month
trans have no trans awareness month
bis have the bi awareness month


when we talk about having LGBT rights, we need to either have the rights across the board for everybody, or not at all

BUT we need to decide if LGBT rights INFRINGE on a persons ability to live a normal life

call them human rights, and there is no issue.... they are there for all people
call them LGBT rights, and you are saying that they are rights for a specific part of the human race and in order to be part of it, you need to wear a label

in nz we have the maori rights activists.... they want maori rights.... and they have the same rights as the rest of nz'ers, but they want SEPERATE maori rights and they are recieving 100's of millions of dollars for their SEPERATE maori rights
they get a advantage for saying they are maori, they do not have to BE maori

but they are the first to talk about ONE PEOPLE, ONE NZ, but they also want maori schools, maori education, maori health care, etc etc etc
now I can't get the op I need on my knee cos there is no money....I now share that with the other 120,000 people dropped from the surgical waiting lists

the money has been diverted to paying for maori healthcare.....not NZ health care, but one group of nz's that wanted equal rights.....but equal rights as maori, not as nz'ers and now the whole of NZ is paying for that

[Lorcan]

BUT we need to decide if LGBT rights INFRINGE on a persons ability to live a normal life

excuse me? what are you talking about? we want the right to marry who we want, and the right to not get fired for our orientation. How does that infringe?

Not to mention the common courtesy not to get killed for it either!

Look, i know where your coming from LDD, but i think your making an incorrect analogy to the maori. I saying we want the same rights too. But we want to stand up as bisexuals and be counted, not dismissed... not shamed back into the closet.

[Long Duck Dong]

lol lorcan

tell me something, are bisexuals that unigue that we require bisexual education, health care, etc etc etc
is the standard health care, education etc, not good enuf for us ????

I may be bisexual, but I don't want to be treated ANY differently to the rest of the world.....

in nz, under the marriage act, gays / les and hetero / bi people that do not identify with the standard marriage act, may have a civil union

this is a second class marriage, not equal to *normal * marriage.... but its known as the gay marriage act

bi's got the right to marry who they want, but are not allowed to call it a marriage, they must call it a civil union

the LGBT community AGREED to it....and in doing so, gained a second class state of marriage for the LGBT.....setting the LGBT apart from the rest of NZ

we are NOT equal to the rest of nz, or have the same rights to marriage, cos the LGBT activists WANTED the LGBT TO BE SET APART

as a nz'er I have the right to marriage.....as a bisexual, i can marry a woman in a normal marriage, but only marry a male in a civil union

originally the marriage act was going to be amended to cover all states of marriage EQUALLY...... but LGBT RIGHTS was added and created a SECONDARY state of marriage for a specific group.....

humans rights is for ALL people to have the right to marry.....LGBT is for LGBT people......

[Lorcan]

lol lorcan

tell me something, are bisexuals that unigue that we require bisexual education, health care, etc etc etc
is the standard health care, education etc, not good enuf for us ????

...


I didn't say that. I said we're not like the Maori. I think you're equating us with the Maori is a wrong anology.

I am acually saying that i want what you want. We just have a little difference on how to get it.

[tom_uk]

lol tom uk, 714 cos I am here making friends, sharing, and laughing

its got nothing to do with the fact I am bisexual or that this is bisexual.com lol



LDD really! - so why did you select bisexual dot com and not right wing gay killer dot com to make friends and laugh? was it just the luck of the draw

tom_uk

[dafydd]

lol lorcan

tell me something, are bisexuals that unigue that we require bisexual education, health care, etc etc etc
is the standard health care, education etc, not good enuf for us ????

I may be bisexual, but I don't want to be treated ANY differently to the rest of the world.....

in nz, under the marriage act, gays / les and hetero / bi people that do not identify with the standard marriage act, may have a civil union

this is a second class marriage, not equal to *normal * marriage.... but its known as the gay marriage act

bi's got the right to marry who they want, but are not allowed to call it a marriage, they must call it a civil union

the LGBT community AGREED to it....and in doing so, gained a second class state of marriage for the LGBT.....setting the LGBT apart from the rest of NZ

we are NOT equal to the rest of nz, or have the same rights to marriage, cos the LGBT activists WANTED the LGBT TO BE SET APART

as a nz'er I have the right to marriage.....as a bisexual, i can marry a woman in a normal marriage, but only marry a male in a civil union

originally the marriage act was going to be amended to cover all states of marriage EQUALLY...... but LGBT RIGHTS was added and created a SECONDARY state of marriage for a specific group.....

humans rights is for ALL people to have the right to marry.....LGBT is for LGBT people......

I've just got up, I haven't had my coffee yet, so forgive me, but now I am totally confused by what you want (or don't want) LDD.
Basically you're saying that LGBT's people continued visibility and legal status is pigeonholing you as a certain type of bi person. You don't want people to see you as 'that bi person' who is engendering resentment, but you'd rather be seen as more of an individual. yes?
I understand but I'm sorry I have to say this but this smacks of a certain amount of self-hating. There is a whiff of shame in the air. Are you totally 'out'?
I think we all owe a debt of gratitude to all the people who have fought for bi rights in the past. Without these people we would not perhaps have as an open a forum or discussion as this.
Thanks LDD
D

[Herbwoman39]

I am tired of the * US v's THEM * stuff.....

most people go to LGBT events cos they wanna to make friends and talk and laugh...and not cos they are LGBT people.....

I hear ya on the LGBT segregation bit. Unfortunately there is biphobia galore out there so rather that having to put up with the "so when are you going to come out the rest of the way" BS, it's just easier to find a bi group.

Now as for the second comment, I'm a tad confuse here. As one of the B's in LGBT, I've gone to events to be around other people who are like me. It's the same reason I go to Pagan events and not evangelical Christian events. In an atmosphere such as that, I can feel a kinship and know that the people around me have been/are going through things similar to what I've been through so we can identify with one another. For me, being able to identify with someone makes it easier to have conversations and make friends.

I *did* want to add that I can see where you're coming from on the Maori issues. Separation does not mean equal in their case. It merely means a bigger tax burden. Having been denied help paying my electric bill because the migrant workers sucked up the ENTIRE welfare budget for the county, I completely get where you're coming from.

[Long Duck Dong]

lol dafydd

lets simplify this, shall we


I would perfer that I have the right to decide when and if I reveal my personal nature to people and NOT have people put in the situation where they are not sure of what to say to me, or do around me, cos I may scream * discrimination *

I would perfer that health professionals / specialists etc are NOT pushed or pressured into treating me with kid gloves cos I am bisexual, but that they do what ever is needed to get me well again, with fear of me screaming * discrimination * or abuse of my rights as a bisexual

I would perfer that I don't have to say that I am bisexual in order to gain access to any place of service ( bar, restaurant, social group etc )
nor do I wish to see NON bisexual people blocked from the same services

simply.... I do not wish to have to turn my bisexuality from a simple aspect of my personality and nature, into something that is used for political grandstanding

[Long Duck Dong]

lol herbwoman

ok with the second remark ( most people go to LGBT events cos they wanna to make friends and talk and laugh...and not cos they are LGBT people.....)
it should have been LGBT social events, I accidently left out the social part

if you went to a LGBT social event and everybody was dead pan serious, with no humor and nobody talked to anybody, would you go back time and time again
or do you go to LGBT social events cos you feel you must, cos you are bisexual ??

to me, most LGBT people go to LGBT social events, not cos of their sexuality, but cos the events can be fantastic places for laughing, sharing, joking, crying and have a hell of a time

run a activist LGBT event and you will not get the same turnout as the social event, as a lot of people don't care about the political grandstanding, nor do they want to have their sexuality spread all around town, nor will you generally find the same level of * pleasure *

the same applies outside the LGBT social events.....
I hang with friends that are LGBT and hetero.... I don't hang with people cos of their sexuality but how they make me feel....

[dafydd]

lol dafydd

lets simplify this, shall we


I would perfer that I have the right to decide when and if I reveal my personal nature to people and NOT have people put in the situation where they are not sure of what to say to me, or do around me, cos I may scream * discrimination *

I would perfer that health professionals / specialists etc are NOT pushed or pressured into treating me with kid gloves cos I am bisexual, but that they do what ever is needed to get me well again, with fear of me screaming * discrimination * or abuse of my rights as a bisexual

I would perfer that I don't have to say that I am bisexual in order to gain access to any place of service ( bar, restaurant, social group etc )
nor do I wish to see NON bisexual people blocked from the same services

simply.... I do not wish to have to turn my bisexuality from a simple aspect of my personality and nature, into something that is used for political grandstanding

I'm sorry LDD but you have just totally lost me. I'm not really sure what you're complaining about. It must be very different in Australia/New Zealand because I cannot empathise with anything you are saying. What bar is saying you have to 'declare you are bisexual'? Are health professionals really treating you with 'kid gloves' because you are bisexual? Can you cite some examples. What kind of people are you associating with that are so afraid of you 'screaming discrimination'? What kind of country is this?
LDD you've made it sound quite bizarre down under.

D

[FalconAngel]

Fact is the real problem is how do you balance equality with political correctness?

As a society, Humans have historically had some real difficulties with that. For example, those of you who have been to Disney World in Orlando may have noticed that the 20,000 leagues under the sea ride is gone. That is because it could not be made wheel chair accessible. Political correctness. They can't physically do it, so no one else is allowed to enjoy it.
Fact is that not everyone can do or be everything to everyone. Some people will be excluded from certain things because of their own limitations; be they physical, gender, emotional, religious or because of sexual orientation.

It happens. For those that think otherwise, you need to open your eyes to the real world and just face it.

We should, ALL, be treated with the same respect and courtesy due to us as people, but that does not mean that we should be kissing each other's (figurative) asses just because we are women or men or BI or Gay or Straight or short or tall or handicapped.
Everyone is different and all that matters, as regards this discussion, is basic respect for the fact that we are all different for a myriad of reasons that vary from person to person. In Star Trek, they have a philosophy for it; IDIC.or Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

It's not political correctness; just plain old-fashioned decency toward others. And so if you want to have others kiss your ass, then you had better be prepared to kiss their's just as much..........or you could just give common respect and expect it back which is much simpler and less stressful.

[Long Duck Dong]

dafydd

read what I am saying

I am not complaining... I am stating the fact that my bisexuality is a part of who I am, its not who I am

the nz LGBT is the group that is pushing for that to become a reality in a country where its illegal to discriminate on the grounds of age, race, sexuality and sex, claiming that LGBT rights are NOT getting acknowledged

in nz, we don't have discrimination..... but we do have the LGBT community accusing people of homophobia if they do not get things the way they want

a example of that is les mills, the auckland city mayor, who has been labelled a homophobic for not allowing the hero parade to happen one year
he gave reasons such as other events were scheduled at the same time and there were issues with the nz public over the obscene and offensive behievour witnessed during previous hero parades, used condoms littering the streets etc etc, ( the behievour was of a nature that would get the average joe bloggs immediately arrested )

we have a health system that treats all people regardless of sexuality
the LGBT community want that changed to allow for a health system that singles out the LGBT community

many of the nz gay cruise bars and saunas are shutting down cos more people are NOT going to them but meeting up privately
the LGBT community want to go back to having LGBT bars that are LGBT exclusive......

most of the LGBT major social events in nz attract all sexualities, and generate a large amount of money....
the LGBT want the nz public to play for MORE events for the LGBT community but they also want the non LGBT people excluded from the events

NOW read my lips

there are LGBT rights and HUMAN rights.....
the LGBT community in nz, have equal human rights, but they now want LGBT exclusive rights, IE, the right to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality and that would force people like me to have to use our sexuality as a * instant access * right

that is what I am dead against.......

[Vuarra]

Fact is the real problem is how do you balance equality with political correctness?

[...]

It's not political correctness; just plain old-fashioned decency toward others. And so if you want to have others kiss your ass, then you had better be prepared to kiss their's just as much..........or you could just give common respect and expect it back which is much simpler and less stressful.

What this person said.


:bigrin:

I'm one of those "macho straight guys who think 'any hole as long as it's a woman'".

Yeah, I know, flame on.

But the thing is that I treat everyone, and I mean everyone, with absolute human respect the first time I meet them. I could not care what religion, what gender, what gender association, or what sports team / league. (Well, except for Argos fans.)

The only time I lose respect for someone is if they DO something that makes me lose respect.

I support full and exactly equal rights for women as for men. Granted, when I meet a woman who thinks Andrea Dworkin was a little too submissive to men, and tries her best to prove it to me, I think less of the person, but not to the gender or the rights' movement.

I also think that I'll not become a wetnurse, and my friend who is female and 95# soaking wet will prolly not become a firefighter, but those are not rights issues, rather physical limitations that are inherently unsafe. I doubt that those infringe on our real rights, but it would not surprise me that there are some who think that it's unfair, and would fight to get those rights. I don't care, but I'm not going to starve a baby because I can't lactate, and if a fire breaks out, I don't want the 95# woman trying to carry me down a fire ladder.

I'll be honest, I'm not thrilled by seeing two guys kissing in the street. But that is their passion. I'm also not thrilled by seeing lesbian or straight couples kissing on the street, either. Does that make me unfair?

One last thought, I heard in Toronto during Pride Week. "There are gays who don't want fully equal rights, because they'd have nothing to do during Pride Week." Comments?

I don't agree with that statement, but I'm the wrong gender orientation to speak out.

[dafydd]

dafydd

read what I am saying

I am not complaining... I am stating the fact that my bisexuality is a part of who I am, its not who I am

the nz LGBT is the group that is pushing for that to become a reality in a country where its illegal to discriminate on the grounds of age, race, sexuality and sex, claiming that LGBT rights are NOT getting acknowledged

in nz, we don't have discrimination..... but we do have the LGBT community accusing people of homophobia if they do not get things the way they want

a example of that is les mills, the auckland city mayor, who has been labelled a homophobic for not allowing the hero parade to happen one year
he gave reasons such as other events were scheduled at the same time and there were issues with the nz public over the obscene and offensive behievour witnessed during previous hero parades, used condoms littering the streets etc etc, ( the behievour was of a nature that would get the average joe bloggs immediately arrested )

we have a health system that treats all people regardless of sexuality
the LGBT community want that changed to allow for a health system that singles out the LGBT community

many of the nz gay cruise bars and saunas are shutting down cos more people are NOT going to them but meeting up privately
the LGBT community want to go back to having LGBT bars that are LGBT exclusive......

most of the LGBT major social events in nz attract all sexualities, and generate a large amount of money....
the LGBT want the nz public to play for MORE events for the LGBT community but they also want the non LGBT people excluded from the events

NOW read my lips

there are LGBT rights and HUMAN rights.....
the LGBT community in nz, have equal human rights, but they now want LGBT exclusive rights, IE, the right to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality and that would force people like me to have to use our sexuality as a * instant access * right

that is what I am dead against.......

I disagree. As i have said before LGBT rights are Human rights.
I think it's disgraceful that they cancelled the pride, despite the circumstances. Just because it is in the nz legislation that LGBT people should not be discriminated against doesn't mean that this discrimination doesn't happen.
Case in point: in UK the Sexual Orientation Regulations 2003 make it illegal for an employer to discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation. Does this make it a level workplace for LGBT people? No.
Percentage of tribunal cases for LGBT employees that are successful under the legislation? 4%

Do you really think nz LGBT people just want to get in your face?

It must be a sad situation in nz where you feel LGBT are terrorising the political landscape, but I think rather this opinion is formed out of an uncomfortable sense of being recognised as bi in your society than any real LGBT militant agenda.
I ask you again...are you 'out'?

D

[dafydd]

I'll be honest, I'm not thrilled by seeing two guys kissing in the street. But that is their passion. I'm also not thrilled by seeing lesbian or straight couples kissing on the street, either. Does that make me unfair?

[/SIZE]

Sounds like you're just not into PDA which is fine.

d

[julie]

LDD really! - so why did you select bisexual dot com and not right wing gay killer dot com to make friends and laugh? was it just the luck of the draw

tom_uk

well, quite.... :cool:

[darkeyes]

Duckie.. me c's wotya gettin at... its a bit clumsily put but it has its merits ... but wotya seem ta fail 2 understand is that legal an offical acceptance of our rights as human beins 2 b who we r is not quite the same as general recognition and acceptance by society as a whole..as yet we hav not won ova the hearts an minds of whole swathes of opinion, from the religious groups, to many right wing parties an people who r simply intolerant arseholes!

[Long Duck Dong]

dafydd... try reading

I am OUT... O...U ...T... I have been for years......

I have posted about dealing with fights in bars, cos I hang with LGBT and heteros and I am KNOWN AS BISEXUAL...... if you haven't read me saying that I am out in society, then you are only reading part of my posts thruout the forum

I am not against the LGBT community, or LGBT rights.... I stand against LGBT exclusive and seperatism in a country where LGBT and HETERO mixed events are helping gain massive acceptance for the LGBT communti as a whole

the LGBT ACTIVISTS want to bring in LGBT exclusiveness.... that would undo everything

a large number of the hetero community fought hand in hand with the LGBT community to get the civil union made into law.......
the LGBT activists are the reason the marriage was not amended to include all couples, but the civil union was created as a secondary state of marriage to cover the LGBT

we HAD full rights for all..... the LGBT activists wanted SEPERATISM ....

tell me dafydd, would you perfer to have a FULL state of marriage, equal with all hetero people, or a civil union ( secondary state of marriage ) for the LGBT community
remember human rights are for all to be equal, LGBT rights created the civil union ( secondary state of marriage )

do you want a dividing line in legal law, that gives the LGBT exclusiveness and seperatism and a secondary class of everything ????

72% of the LGBT and 62% of the hetero community fought for amendment to the marriage act for all people
a UNITED front of LGBT and HETERO people putting all differences aside for the sake of everybody
I SUPPORTED THEM ALL THE WAY.... cos they compassed what I believe.....
a community spirit without dividing lines

btw, the hero parade was cancelled cos nearly $ one million dollars was left in unpaid bills...... the legal law was repeatedly broken and the guidelines laid out by the auckland council were not met by the organizers of the hero parade....

it started up again under a COMBINED LGBT and hetero group and nz saw the single greatest LGBT/HETERO event in nz history.....

the LGBT community has been saying, we can't expect acceptance, if we practise seperatism.....

the LGBT activists have been saying, we don't want unity, we want exclusiveness cos we are LGBT and we have different needs

the gay movement of nz, has lost 7 of its gay cruise bars and saunas, cos the gays got sick of the exclusiveness... and stopped going... gays started going to * normal bars * where they could drink with non gay friends.....and not have to worry about criticism for hanging with non gays

I will say it again, in case you are not reading my full post

I am against LGBT seperatism

I support full human rights for all WITHOUT the label of LGBT to set them apart and creating a secondary class of rights

I fully support LGBT / HETERO community spirit and support.... we need to draw non LGBT in and show them ourselves, not shut them out

I fully support people NOT having to use their sexuality as a * instant access * deal.....

I fully understand that no matter how the law is changed or amended, we can't remove the biased against the LGBT, but nor can we remove the LGBT biased against the heteros

[AdamKadmon43]

... And on and on it goes ...

[Long Duck Dong]

roflmao adam

its back to what I originally posted, which is I don't want my bisexual rights

I want the right to marry because I am human, not cos I am bisexual
I want the right to have job security cos I need to pay my bills, not cos I am bisexual
I want the right to be treated by a doctor cos I am ill, and not cos I am bisexual
I want the right to drink in a bar cos I enjoy having a beer with friends, and not cos I am bisexual

I simply want the right to be myself without having to justify myself or my actions by saying I am bisexual lol

its a dream, in all honesty and a dream that I will NEVER see, become reality

[Lorcan]

I stand against LGBT exclusive and seperatism in a country where LGBT and HETERO mixed events are helping gain massive acceptance for the LGBT communti as a whole

the LGBT ACTIVISTS want to bring in LGBT exclusiveness.... that would undo everything
....
we HAD full rights for all..... the LGBT activists wanted SEPERATISM ....


Exclusiveness and Separatism? that's bad. i think we are going the other way in USA. they have "Gay Straight Alliance" clubs in the schools. We speak of inclusiveness in the GLBT Centers more. not that it's all peachy here,....
but i think that's why some of us didn't understand you at first.

[dafydd]

dafydd... try reading

I am OUT... O...U ...T... I have been for years......

I have posted about dealing with fights in bars, cos I hang with LGBT and heteros and I am KNOWN AS BISEXUAL...... if you haven't read me saying that I am out in society, then you are only reading part of my posts thruout the forum


Thanks for answering my question. good you're out. cool.
I haven't trawled through your previous post, only going on this discussion.
In the UK LGBT campaigners fought for full marriage equality, but because of problems with the church recieved the (IMO) second rate civil union. THe government say it is identical in law, but if it is the same then why 2 systems? I support the right to marry definitely.
Basically what it seems you're talking about in nz is positive discrimination for LGBT people. Seperatism sounds quite extreme. I don't believe in seperatism. But positive discrimination has many shades of grey. I think there should be drives to recruit more LGBT people in education and into the government to act as role models to kids who feel they are freaks. Why not stick a couple of LGBT people in prominant positions to affect some change? About time.

You make nz sound like some LGBT nirvana, but isn't there still some work to do in NZ for full LGBT equality. A gay couple can't adopt in NZ and men can't adopt girls, and homosexuality was only decriminlised in 1986? correct me if wrong.
Sounds like the LGBT civil rights movement is only in it's early 20s which makes sense why it's rebelling against the hetero culture. At that age most of us had extreme ideas to challenge the dominant command.

D

[Long Duck Dong]

les couples can foster children and adopt children, IF they are females.... there is still a lot of opposition to gay males adopting children

there are many solo fathers that have their children but opposition to males adopting female children
the reasoning behind opposition to males adopting girls, is actually based around pedophilia, not LGBT people

most of the opposition against ANY LGBT rights or events, is centered around the gay male aspect of the LGBT community.....and that narrows down to peoples dislike of the idea of one male sticking his cock in another males ass
and it doesn't matter what the gay community says, that is still the one point that most opponents of gay rights, use as a weapon

nz is not a LGBT nirvana and never will be, as the LGBT activists want seperation.. not positive discrimination

seperatism is when a aspect is used as a right to gain services and advantages that are exclusive in access, deny others the right to access and the result is something that actively penalises the very people it is meant to benefit

marriage and the civil union are a prime example
to marry is the ultimate in joining with a partner... cos its a exclusive right, the LGT are denied that right, the bisexual has it under limited terms...
so they get the civil union, and told, in order to truely show your love for another, you have to settle for a second rate deal and acknowledge that you are second rate people.....

stupid thing is the people that want it that way are two groups.....

the religious movement ( that tell us we are all equal in gods eyes, then tell us that god dislikes what we do, so we are not allowed to take what he gave to ALL his children )

the LGBT activist / fanatic, that believes that to be LGBT and proud, you need to stand out from the very people we are trying to stand with.... society

now myself, I tend to stand with the group that says, * to hell with the difference, everybody deserves the same equal rights *, but also, I am a wiccan person.... I would never get married in a marriage / civil union ceremony, I would have a handbinding instead ( old celtic style of marriage, not recognized as a form of legal marriage )

its stupid but I am fighting for rights for people, rights that I don't want for myself lol.....but in all fairness, nor do I want my handfasting recognized as a legal marriage..... its just not worth the fight

[coyotedude]

I don't want your bisexual rights! Can you share your lefts, however?

But seriously.... I think there is value in community. Communities can give us strength when we are weak, wisdom when we seek answers, comfort from the storms around us.

Unfortunately, communities can also be cliques, or worse. At its most extreme, a community can be used to dehumanize all those who don't fit in.

In other words, communities can play both to our strengths and weaknesses as human beings.

Just my :2cents:

Peace

[Long Duck Dong]

lol community is the ideal word, and one that I love

to me, community speaks about understanding, sharing, caring, and tolerance, of each other and those that do not share our views and opinions

I love communities like the LGBT community of bisexual.com, its a open site for all.... and not bisexual exclusive....

that, truly is my view of bisexuality and the LGBT community in general

now we don't always agree or see eye to eye with other members, but we still share the site.... for what ever reason

thats what I would love to see out in the world.....

[wanderingrichard]

I sometimes suspect that if people can ever get past the happy little "feel good" notion that Diversity is something that we need to celebrate, and start viewing it as what it actually is, then we shall all be much better off and much more able to get along with each other.

Adam

ok, i agree. now, go tell the worlds corporations to shift up a gear while dealing with it... they're still stuck in the celebration mode.... except, they aren't celebrating, just mouthing platitudes...... :three:

[dafydd]

marriage and the civil union are a prime example
to marry is the ultimate in joining with a partner... cos its a exclusive right, the LGT are denied that right, the bisexual has it under limited terms...
so they get the civil union, and told, in order to truely show your love for another, you have to settle for a second rate deal and acknowledge that you are second rate people.....

stupid thing is the people that want it that way are two groups.....

the religious movement ( that tell us we are all equal in gods eyes, then tell us that god dislikes what we do, so we are not allowed to take what he gave to ALL his children )

the LGBT activist / fanatic, that believes that to be LGBT and proud, you need to stand out from the very people we are trying to stand with.... society



I can understand why some LGBT might not want marriage. Marriage is a heterosexual institution, rooted in religion and constructed because of a straight males desire to control his women. Many LGBT activists would argue that they don't want any part of it, and would advocate a new, more modern system. Marriage is not necessarily the holy grail for all LGBT people.
Me..? I haven't come to a decision as of yet on where I stand on that debate.

d

[Long Duck Dong]

lol,

i would fully support a modern system of marriage / civil union type thing if it placed ANY type of marriage / civil union on the same level

I don't wish to marry or have a civil union.... but I don't wanna see people placed as * second class * people, just cos they choose a civil union over marriage

[dafydd]

lol,

i would fully support a modern system of marriage / civil union type thing if it placed ANY type of marriage / civil union on the same level

I don't wish to marry or have a civil union.... but I don't wanna see people placed as * second class * people, just cos they choose a civil union over marriage

I don't see nec. civil unions as second class.

d

[Huey_durden]

I don't see nec. civil unions as second class.

d

Believe it or not, Civil unions do not get all the rights that marriages get. it gets maybe 13 percent of the rights. There is a book called "Why you should give a damm about gay marriages" which shows why civil unions is nothing ut second place.
Fuck acceptance, I demand respect.
think about it. If someone hasn't broken any lwas, why should they be treated as second class citizens based on doctrine that was used to promote slavery much less gay bashing? [Yes..this doctorine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BbuH40bDgg)

But hey if you don't want it you don't want it. But you should have a choice of yes as well as no.
Just saying is all. :2cents:

[Long Duck Dong]

lol huey

here in new zealand, with the civil union... legally people are afforded the same rights and privileges as marriage, but it was made quite clear that the civil union and marriage were not equal

*Civil unions in New Zealand were passed into law on 9 December 2004 when Parliament passed the Civil Union Act to establish the institution of civil union for same-sex and heterosexual couples. The Act has been described as very similar to the Marriage Act with references to "marriage" replaced by "civil union". A companion bill, the Relationships (Statutory References) Bill, was passed shortly thereafter on 15 March 2005, to remove discriminatory provisions on the basis of relationship status from a range of statutes and regulations. As a result of these bills, all couples in New Zealand, whether married, in a civil union, or in a de facto partnership, now generally enjoy the same rights and undertake the same obligations. These rights extend to immigration, next-of-kin status, social welfare, matrimonial property and other areas. *

what really rocked me to my core, was this

*the New Zealand public narrowly supported the bill, with opinion polls indicating around 56 per cent in favour. The bill was controversial in some quarters, attracting strong opposition from the evangelical Destiny Church and the Catholic Church in New Zealand. However, not all Christians were opposed to the Bill. Christians for Civil Unions played an important role in the debates along with other Christian groups including the Student Christian Movement.*

the christian supporters of the civil union bill stated clearly that ALL people were entitled to the same rights.......as jesus had stated.....
now thats what I call christians who are true to their faith in Christ

its strange that I would happily stand beside some christians and turn my back on some LGBT people
lol and it was not cos the christians are supporting us, but cos they are supporting everybodies rights to have the same thing, the right to have our love legally recognized

[dafydd]

Believe it or not, Civil unions do not get all the rights that marriages get. it gets maybe 13 percent of the rights. There is a book called "Why you should give a damm about gay marriages" which shows why civil unions is nothing ut second place.
Fuck acceptance, I demand respect.
think about it. If someone hasn't broken any lwas, why should they be treated as second class citizens based on doctrine that was used to promote slavery much less gay bashing? [Yes..this doctorine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BbuH40bDgg)

But hey if you don't want it you don't want it. But you should have a choice of yes as well as no.
Just saying is all. :2cents:

Not sure what country you're referring to. Civil partnerships in the United Kingdom, granted under the Civil Partnership Act 2004, give same-sex couples rights and responsibilities identical to civil marriage.

D

[glantern954]

I think we all owe a debt of gratitude to all the people who have fought for bi rights in the past. Without these people we would not perhaps have as an open a forum or discussion as this.

This is probably the most worthwhile thing I have read in this thread.

[IanBorthwick]

Ok, since peopel are simply lashing out in here in some cases, let me sum up:

LDD is saying he does not want his RIGHTS as a bisexual to override anyone elses, to suck up resources he does not deserve nor to give him special privelege beyon that accorded to any other human being. He doesn't see it as fair if the rest of the world must bow or do more than treat him as human if he is openly Bisexual, as most laws in his country seem to be ones that seperate and put people on a pedestal, in essence a kind of reverse Jim Crow laws liek we had in the American Southern States. His example was how the Maoris are soaking the country for cash and priveleges not accorded to the average Kiwi.

The rest are confused because of the simpel fact that no one here wants to be on a pedestal, but in most countries if you don't rise and act you lose your rights under a load of exclusions and law contorting. Hell, in the US we catch hell often enough from the L and the G of LGBT as it is just for being us. We dont' get acceptance in our own supposed community so how can we expect to be allowed to live and let live.

As Bisexuals we are treated as outsiders and mistrusted on both sides of the line, whether we stand with the LG or with the Heteros and hide. What we need and want is for both sides to accept and recognize us as real and deserving of consideration. Nowhere in those goals have we asked to be elevated to "Superior Pedestal" status, LDD. In an ideal world no one would have to worry asking for these small things, but our world is not anything like a Disney Movie ending, life can suck. And more importantly we have to fight and push to be remembered in the equations of the Rich and Powerful, as well as in the LGBT community.

The term for it is "Red Queen Syndrome" after Alice Through the Looking Glass. It's a scientific term for evolution and survival...to live you have to run as FAST as you can, fight as hard as you are able to survive. We're there now, living that "Red Queen Syndrome" because each side wants us for their own agendas and consideration, but we need our own out there too. I think all would agree that we do not want more than our fair treatment, no one here will say we need anything other than legalized or accepted validity.

The first level of acceptance is within our own group, here..among good people who are born with a freedom of the heart that scares a lot of people out there.

Sorry, LDD. I don't want to label myself, but I don't want to hide and wait for things to get better. My son inherits the world I help to make, and he may be bisexual too. I think I owe him a world better than I entered in October 1971...don't you?