Bring Back The Trains!!!

[12voltman59]

I heard this interesting report just a bit ago on my NPR station--a story about a person who wants to see the return of rail service for much more than we do now here in the US---we should never have gutted our rail system in this nation---with gasoline now pushing $4.00 USD per gallon and the price going up literally day by day like a space shuttle heading for orbit--maybe that is what it will take for us to finally "kill the car"!

I know-this is a sex site and why the hell do I always talk about things other than sex??? you might ask----well--sex is fun and all of that---but there are lots of other things going on in the world that are of major importance---

Here is the story---you can click on and hear the segment or you can read the transcript of the interview.

http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=08-P13-00019&segmentID=8

[ambi53mm]

I know-this is a sex site and why the hell do I always talk about things other than sex???
http://www.loe.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=08-P13-00019&segmentID=8

.......on the other hand....what could be sexier than a well defined caboose:bigrin:....sorry...one track mind I guess.:)

Ambi:offtopic:

[darkeyes]

....wos fun...wos a long time ago..an didn haff feel grubby afta... but trains ere aint the mos comfy for it...

[jamieknyc]

As many people here know, I am the room's resident rail commuter.

One thing most people don't realize about mass transit is that- at least in New York, which has 40% of America's mass transit ridership- mass transit is priced at monopoly prices. I pay $210.00 per month for my monthly railroad ticket. That is the monthly rate: if you bought a single round-trip ticket, it would cost you $15.00. And I live closer to the city than most other commuters, too. I happen to work within walking distance from the train station, but many others have a subway fare on top of that, at $2.00 per ride. To add to the pain, the same state authority that operates the transit also controls the bridges and tunnels, and sticks you for a $5.00 toll if you choose to drive.

[HighEnergy]

To add to the pain, the same state authority that operates the transit also controls the bridges and tunnels, and sticks you for a $5.00 toll if you choose to drive.

Well, if that toll is doubled for both ways, you've made your train ticket up and saved the gas. It will always cost us something.

I am going to Chicago Memorial Day. Other person I know is going to fly because it will be cheaper than gas, but she's staying at the main hotel and I'm staying at a hotel for half the cost 10 minutes away.

Yes, gutting our rail system was stupid, although it gives us terrific bike trails! Someone mentioned to me over a year ago that the government taxed the rail system out to make trucking more viable. It would save HUGE amounts of diesel and reduce our costs of goods sold if more things traveled at least part way to the stores by rail. But then we'd have truckers out of work and all the factory jobs are in 3rd world nations now.

We've got hard choices ahead, but we've got to make major changes NOW!

[darkeyes]

Me dad has plenty trains all 2 imsel...up in the loft..is babies... boys toys indeed.. tee hee:bigrin:

Jus a point 2 take up wiv ya HE... if railways hadnt been slashed by govts, had had proper investment an ther wos plenty of freight still goin by rail, ther wudn b all those truckers outa work...ther wud b thousands, prob hundreds of thousands of jobs 2 b dun on the railways, an the need for the number of lorries on roads in most countries an the number of drivers wud hav been less in ne case. Kinda swings an roundabouts. It don take an expert on economics 2 c that... similarly if passenger trains wer supported by govts, ther wud b less congestion on our roads cosa ther bein fewer cars on em. Anotha matta of economics an logistics.. but its been dun..an redoin wud cost billions..an not sure it wudn b counterproductive now... but it shud b looked at seriously...

[jamieknyc]

Well, if that toll is doubled for both ways, you've made your train ticket up and saved the gas. It will always cost us something.

I am going to Chicago Memorial Day. Other person I know is going to fly because it will be cheaper than gas, but she's staying at the main hotel and I'm staying at a hotel for half the cost 10 minutes away.

Yes, gutting our rail system was stupid, although it gives us terrific bike trails! Someone mentioned to me over a year ago that the government taxed the rail system out to make trucking more viable. It would save HUGE amounts of diesel and reduce our costs of goods sold if more things traveled at least part way to the stores by rail. But then we'd have truckers out of work and all the factory jobs are in 3rd world nations now.

We've got hard choices ahead, but we've got to make major changes NOW!

More goods travle by rail than people realize. However, the old-time rail system is obsoltete for today's shipping, and the rails in use now were rebuilt to handle modern freight trains.

[12voltman59]

That professor in that piece has some answers on ways to make trains--for mail, for frieght, commuter and long distance travel viable and doable---the problem is--we have some very powerful and entrenched powers that would fight to the death to maintain the deal they have now--

Got to protect "the status quo!"

As far as my statement in my first post about "killing the car"--don't get me wrong--I love cars---I just hate that in 99.99 percent of the places here in the US---you don't have any other viable option than to own and drive an automobile in orider to get around.

For most people--beyond what they spend for housing--a large percentage of their income goes to the purchase and feeding of an automobile--or autos---in that many people have more than one of them-

Not only do you have to buy or lease the things---and buying a car---from a pure "cost benefits" view in terms of one's finances is total craziness--more on that in a bit---you have to "feed them" by filling the tank--keeping your insurance, inspections and registration up to date. Then you have to pay to maintain them in most case--unless you get a car like a BMW that has a program to pay for many of the basic things---but then a car like that--a new set of tires for it sets ya back about three or four thousand and I don't think the program pays for tires.

Getting back to the financial wisdom or lack thereof of buying a or leasing and automobile--if you sat down with a financial person and said---"I am going to spend anywhere from around $20k at the least up to the six figures for this thing" that as soon as I sign the papers for it and take possession--it has lost anywhere from five to as much as 25%--that person would tell you that you are making a horrible financial decision---that you might as well go invest in some ponzi scheme or go to Vegas and feed the one armed bandits!!

Now--there are some cars that do increase in value--maybe something like a Bentley or a Masserati--or an old 60s muscle car--otherwise--most of them lose value immediately.

We will be much better off to say goodbye to the car I do believe for so many reasons---and if the big run up in energy costs finally makes us "kill the car" then it will be a good thing! Nothing lasts forever afterall and we will adjust to life after the automobile. We really have no choice--if we do keep them---the nature of them will have to dramatically change to be sure.

[jamieknyc]

That professor in that piece has some answers on ways to make trains--for mail, for frieght, commuter and long distance travel viable and doable---the problem is--we have some very powerful and entrenched powers that would fight to the death to maintain the deal they have now--

Got to protect "the status quo!"

As far as my statement in my first post about "killing the car"--don't get me wrong--I love cars---I just hate that in 99.99 percent of the places here in the US---you don't have any other viable option than to own and drive an automobile in orider to get around.

For most people--beyond what they spend for housing--a large percentage of their income goes to the purchase and feeding of an automobile--or autos---in that many people have more than one of them-

Not only do you have to buy or lease the things---and buying a car---from a pure "cost benefits" view in terms of one's finances is total craziness--more on that in a bit---you have to "feed them" by filling the tank--keeping your insurance, inspections and registration up to date. Then you have to pay to maintain them in most case--unless you get a car like a BMW that has a program to pay for many of the basic things---but then a car like that--a new set of tires for it sets ya back about three or four thousand and I don't think the program pays for tires.

Getting back to the financial wisdom or lack thereof of buying a or leasing and automobile--if you sat down with a financial person and said---"I am going to spend anywhere from around $20k at the least up to the six figures for this thing" that as soon as I sign the papers for it and take possession--it has lost anywhere from five to as much as 25%--that person would tell you that you are making a horrible financial decision---that you might as well go invest in some ponzi scheme or go to Vegas and feed the one armed bandits!!

Now--there are some cars that do increase in value--maybe something like a Bentley or a Masserati--or an old 60s muscle car--otherwise--most of them lose value immediately.

We will be much better off to say goodbye to the car I do believe for so many reasons---and if the big run up in energy costs finally makes us "kill the car" then it will be a good thing! Nothing lasts forever afterall and we will adjust to life after the automobile. We really have no choice--if we do keep them---the nature of them will have to dramatically change to be sure.

Our grandparents lived in inner-city neighborhoods and drove the car only for Sunday outings, if they owned one in the first place. Today, however, it is unrealistic to turn the clock back to the way of life of Ralph and Alice Kramden.

[weird dream]

I really find it strange how people don't travel all that much by train the US... Perhaps petrol was much cheaper - it still is compared to most of the world - your highways are good, and flights are pretty cheap as well... Europe has a lot more train travel - of course the distances are small - but at least in the UK, train tickets are ridiculously high-priced.

Anyway, here's my take on Indian Railways (a central govt org) - the world's biggest employers! - with the fourth-largest network IIRC. (After Russia, the US, and China)

Out here in India, rail travel is massive - both freight and passengers...The railways are a part of our culture now - you can make friends, fall in love, encounter so many different places and cultures on a trip. But now that flights are much cheaper, a Delhi-Mumbai ticket is USD 50 - cheaper than a II AC sleeper, more and more people are going by air.

However, since most people still can't afford air travel - train is still the preferred option - but it takes long - Delhi to Bombay in 17 hours, Delhi to Bangalore takes 36, and Delhi to Chennai takes 44. For anyone travelling here, I'd recommend AC chaircar for short distances, IInd AC/3 tier AC - or if you can afford it - first class.

dreamer

[brianisntthere]

Hi, this is my first post here.
I'm an American living in France, and I have to say, I love traveling by train. I hate airports, and everything about them. I've been sort of spoiled by the rail service here, and I'd love to see high speed rail like the French TGV brought to the US. I know Amtrak has the Acela, but it doesn't operate much outside the northeastern corridor. Kinda unfortunate.

[nothings5d]

---with gasoline now pushing $4.00 USD per gallon

Pushing $4?!? I paid $4.06 yesterday and $4.05 last week. 16+ gallons and 18+ gallons respectively. I paid over $73 dollars last week to fill up my tank. 2 months ago that was $50-$60. Gas isn't pushing $4/Gallon. It's pushed right on past it.

[jamieknyc]

I really find it strange how people don't travel all that much by train the US... Perhaps petrol was much cheaper - it still is compared to most of the world - your highways are good, and flights are pretty cheap as well... Europe has a lot more train travel - of course the distances are small - but at least in the UK, train tickets are ridiculously high-priced.

Anyway, here's my take on Indian Railways (a central govt org) - the world's biggest employers! - with the fourth-largest network IIRC. (After Russia, the US, and China)

Out here in India, rail travel is massive - both freight and passengers...The railways are a part of our culture now - you can make friends, fall in love, encounter so many different places and cultures on a trip. But now that flights are much cheaper, a Delhi-Mumbai ticket is USD 50 - cheaper than a II AC sleeper, more and more people are going by air.

However, since most people still can't afford air travel - train is still the preferred option - but it takes long - Delhi to Bombay in 17 hours, Delhi to Bangalore takes 36, and Delhi to Chennai takes 44. For anyone travelling here, I'd recommend AC chaircar for short distances, IInd AC/3 tier AC - or if you can afford it - first class.

dreamer

Rail freight traffic in America is enormous. Railroads carry 300,000 frieght cars of traffic per week. Passenger rail traffic is usually not competitive with the airlines, except in some denssely populated regions like the Northeast, where distances are short enough to make the railroads competitive.

[12voltman59]

If you go and listen to the program I have mentioned in the link--the professor calling for a major return to reliance on rail transportation has laid out some very good scenarios on how to make railroads viable not only for frieght, but for mail again and for passenger service to all areas of the country--and it does not have to be all governement subsidized because apparently---some very big financial people like the big Kahuna himself--Warren Buffett and his Berkshire Hathaway Inc. are putting in a lot of chips into the railway sector pie.

It would be a great economic stimulus to do what the professor recommends---buildiing new rail lines and hiring all the people it will take to ramp up the system again and then running it.

We certainly need a new major infrastructure program in this nation---since the roads we have are failling apart now and even though many of them are being upgraded--that is only a short term situation--we need to get more people out of cars and more freight off of trucks and both onto trains that can do the job of moving both far more economically and in a more environmentally favorable manner.

[jem_is_bi]

I remember "streetcars".
No sexy wheels to pick up chicks.
But, as plain vanilla transportation, they were great!

[jamieknyc]

If you go and listen to the program I have mentioned in the link--the professor calling for a major return to reliance on rail transportation has laid out some very good scenarios on how to make railroads viable not only for frieght, but for mail again and for passenger service to all areas of the country--and it does not have to be all governement subsidized because apparently---some very big financial people like the big Kahuna himself--Warren Buffett and his Berkshire Hathaway Inc. are putting in a lot of chips into the railway sector pie.

It would be a great economic stimulus to do what the professor recommends---buildiing new rail lines and hiring all the people it will take to ramp up the system again and then running it.

We certainly need a new major infrastructure program in this nation---since the roads we have are failling apart now and even though many of them are being upgraded--that is only a short term situation--we need to get more people out of cars and more freight off of trucks and both onto trains that can do the job of moving both far more economically and in a more environmentally favorable manner.

Passnger rail makes sense if you are traveling, say, from New York to Philadelphia. If you are going from New York to Florida or Texas, it does not make sense.

Even where commuter rail systems exist, they really only make sense to service big-city central business districts. But even in cities with existing commuter rail networks, eceonmic trends have been away from the "my baby makes the morning train" of yesteryear and towards 'live in the suburbs, work in the suburbs.'