What about Barak Obama?

[altbinary]

Personally, I think he' s an empty suit. But others think he's the new messiah.
What do you think?

[TaylorMade]

Talented, charismatic. A rather likable person. But not ready for prime time.

*Taylor*

[incox]

He represents all of our desires and aspirations as a nation. So much for this old style and the horrendous years of Bush. He represents change and change is what "we the people" want. Get out of Iraq where we should have never gotten into. Universal health care for all to lower oosts, no more pork barrell spending. Go for the real terrorists. Alternative enery solutions, etc. etc. Let's give him our vote and we will all win!!

[wolfcamp]

I think he's intelligent and offers good ideas. Personally, I'd rather have a fresh, new approach to the presidency, even if that includes a few mistakes, than to have the same old policies of the last eight years.

[FalconAngel]

Some people see him as JFK resurrected, but the jury is still out on that. He has said that he wants a direction for America that is opposite the direction that is currently causing us more harm than good.
I like that idea.

But to get us out of the disaster that the current regime has caused us may be beyond any one or two terms that any one president can provide. What has happened is not too unlike the things that caused the Great Depression and it will take a lot more change than can happen overnight.

It will take real Americans in office that support bi-partisan efforts for the good of the nation, rather than partisan support of the mega-corporations and the rich.

It will take politicians who support small businesses and the working citizen.

It will take a Senate, Congress and President who supports proper enforcement of immigration and wants to seriously stop illegal immigration and end the handouts to illegal aliens.

It will take a President who is in support of alternative, and renewable energy sources to reduce, and eventually eliminate, our dependent addiction to fossil fuels.

It will take an effort by all of our politicians, at all levels, to work together to reduce or eliminate the extreme levels of corruption in our government and our judiciary.

It will take a lot of things to fix a lot of problems for this country to be great again, like it used to be.

Above all else, it will take a strength of character that we seem to have lost. A strength of character that we had 232 years ago.

[Toad82]

I actually have no real big complaints against him, but because of that I don’t trust him at all.




RJ:lokai:

[vittoria]

fkt if i know, dOOd.

[Lonestar_Northstar]

I (the male half) have only one issue I care about this election. It's not healthcare, inflation, high gas prices, the war...nope. The only issue I am concerned about is having "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" repealed as a policy in the military. I normally don't take too much stock into what politicians "promise", but Obama has said he will not only repeal the policy, but he will institute procedures for personnel that have been discharged under the policy to reenlist back in the military. This concerns me because I was discharged after 18yrs 10mos for being bisexual. So yeah, you can take one guess as to who I'm voting for this November.

[12voltman59]

As usual--the reality of Barak Obama is somewhere between him being the best thing since sliced bread and the devil incarnate depending on who is doing the spinning about him.

I do say--that neither he or John McCain will be as bad as I consider the person who has served as president these past seven and a half years has been--I think that the presidency of George Bush has horrible on every measure possible--the man and his sycophants, as Republicans, totaly fucked up two things that Republicans are supposed to be so damn good at---running wars and the economy--and for a "conservative" who supposedly liked small government---he sure as hell expanded the scope and nature of government----my God--if we had had a Democratic president that had expanded government power to the extent Bush and Cheney have done--the right wing would be apoleptic about that---but it seems to be just fine with them for the most part that Bush ramped up big government.

[Sourdough]

First: First thing he said was he was going to pull the troops out as soon as he became President, now he is backpedaling. He can no longer give a date for removal of the troops.

Second: As for being JFK, Ok what did JFK do? Got us into Viet Nam.

Third: What are his credentials? 158 days in the Senate, he announced he wanted to run for the Presidency. If you ran a company, and a new employee announced after working for only five months he wanted to take over the management of the company, and lead it off in a new direction, would you promote him? I don't think so.

Forth: Why won't he vote on important issues now. His votes lately have been "Present" not "Yea" or "Na". He does not want to get pinned down on the issues. I have a problem with that.

mnboatcouple: Good luck man, I can relate. I got caught at 16 years, while in Turkey. Luckily for me, my commander (Who was being transfered one month later to the same base I was going to) managed to get me shipped out early ahead of the investigation. (I was having an affair with his sister who was also Bi). Then he helped cover it up till I retired. I had to play it straight for the next four years, the wife and I quite swinging and everything. Also my First Sargent was so tied up trying to bust gay airmen, he did not have time to go after me, and he did not want to believe the accusations being made about a Senior NCO. The fellows in CBPO (Personnel) managed to lose paperwork, or delay things till most were discharged at the end of their reguler term. None of my three prosecuted airmen had anything go into their records about being gay. The people at CBPO told me "We take care of our own". So again good luck. Maybe that can be overturned.

[FalconAngel]

I (the male half) have only one issue I care about this election. It's not healthcare, inflation, high gas prices, the war...nope. The only issue I am concerned about is having "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" repealed as a policy in the military. I normally don't take too much stock into what politicians "promise", but Obama has said he will not only repeal the policy, but he will institute procedures for personnel that have been discharged under the policy to reenlist back in the military. This concerns me because I was discharged after 18yrs 10mos for being bisexual. So yeah, you can take one guess as to who I'm voting for this November.

I guess that I (male half of couple) got lucky. No one ever found out about my sexuality while I was in. I know of one kid in my unit that wasn't so lucky. Shame, too, cause he was pretty cute.

But if that idiotic policy was removed, then it would fix a few things in the military. The biggest being security. When I was in, that was a reason that they used for discharging gays/bi's. Let it be in the open and it no longer becomes a security issue. At least, that was the excuse when I was in, during the later part of the Cold War, shortly after Vietnam.

[Doggie_Wood]

Personally, I don't like any of them!

Cast my "write-in" for T. Boone Pickens.
I like his ideas and he has the money to back it up with the following, tenasity and guts to make things happen.

Now, before you start blasting him because he was raised in the oil fields, he is a strong supporter of wind and solar energy as viable alternatives AND he wants us to cease the dependency on foriegn oil.

:2cents:

:doggie:

[Doggie_Wood]

First:

Second: As for being JFK, Ok what did JFK do? Got us into Viet Nam.

Correction:
In early 1945, there occured the first U.S. military presence in Vietnam--a small contingent of OSS (Office of Strategic Services) officers parachuted into northern Vietnam to aid and coordinate with the Viet Minh in their fight against the Japanese.
years later
........a few more U.S. Military personnel showed up to coordinate U.S. military aid to the government of South Vietnam (some CIA agents were probably there too to gather information). The first U.S. advisors arrived in the Republic of Vietnam on Feb. 12th, 1955. MAAGI changed its name to MAAGV (Military Assistance Advisory Group, Vietnam) on Nov. 1st, 1955.

As the schedualed date for the elections approached, both President Diem and President Eisenhower realized that Ho Chi Minh was poised to win overwhelmingly in both the North and the South. Backed by Eisenhower, Diem cancelled the elections on the pretext that they would not be conducted democratically in the North. Although historians disagree as to the starting date for the Second Indochina War (Vietnamese Civil War), July 20th, 1956 is just as good as any other.

Of course, the cancellation of elections angered both the VC and the North Vietnamese government. During the course of the next 8 years, guerrilla warfare conducted by the VC against the ARVN increased. The VC were being aided by North Vietnam which in turn was being aided by the Soviet Union through the port of Haiphong and to some extent by China through their common border. (Mainland China was taken over by the communists in 1949.) The ARVN were being aided by the U.S. in terms of military equipment and "advisors". Initially, both the U.S. and North Vietnam did this clandestinely, but by 1961 it became overt due to the steady escalation by both sides.
The first official date for "in country" service in Vietnam is given as Dec. 22nd, 1961, but it is known that Eisenhower sent some special forces to Vietnam in 1960 and stationed some Navy ships offshore before JFK became President.

ref: http://storiesfromvietnam.com/SMF/index.php?topic=11.0


And I add that JFK wanted to draw the US out of the indochina conflicts. He felt that the attention of the US would be better directed toward Russia. Thus is the addition of another conspirosy theory - war is money.

[chulainn2]

I can think of 2 good reasons why this country could use a strong third party, Obama, McCain.

[TheBisexualProfessor]

Can't vote for Obama ... he is, as one poster said, "an empty suit." In the midst of a host of duplicitous politicians, he's a master! Right now, though, I can't tell if I can stomach McCain long enough to hold my nose and vote for him. Maybe I'll revolt and vote for Bob Barr, the Libertarian candidate. Government is just TOO BIG, TOO EXPENSIVE, and TOO POWERFUL these days. At least half of what's wrong with health care today is government regulation.

[chulainn2]

Thanks Dogwood, I was about to metion President Eisenhower.
But as far as JFK goes, lets not forget the Bay of Pigs.

[Bopit4Ever]

A charasmatic empty suit.

But its time to let a Democrat fuck up the country. :bigrin:

[Doggie_Wood]

Thanks Dogwood, I was about to metion President Eisenhower.
But as far as JFK goes, lets not forget the Bay of Pigs.

True chu - JFK's successor, Johnson, is the one who dove America deepest into the Vietnam war.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Oh dont get me started on this guy!
Sure, he's slick and charismatic, but I just cant get behind a guy who wouldnt be bothered to stand when a four man Color Guard, and a former POW carrying the POW/MIA flag(comprised of a Korean Vet, a Viet Nam Vet, Persian Gulf Vet, a Iraq Veterean, and the POW) came into the room at one of the first big rally's that he and the other candidates attended. That really blew me away. Everyone else stood, and looked at him in total disbelief when this occured. Even Hilary Clinton said "What the hell's the matter with you that you cant stand for our Nation's flag, and a POW flag???"
Nuff said. I hate politics as it is... Grrrrrrrrrr.
Cat
(Got my fill of politics when I worked for thr VA for 15 years)

[Bi-Zarro]

Given the choice between Obama and McCain, I prefer Obama. But I don't expect any great advances in gay (sic) rights under him unless he's pushed really hard by a mass movement on the ground. I can't imagine him going out on a limb for, say, gay marriage.

[bityme]

Here is another take on Obama:

This e-mail came from a very close friend of ours in Mankato, Minnesota who received this e-mail direct.
Below is her comment.


Subject: From our friend Jeff who is serving in Afghanistan

I don't know each of your personal political convictions, and apologize
if anyone finds this offensive. I thought it was important enough to
share.
This is Jeff's first hand view of Senator Obama.

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Hello everyone,

As you know I am not a very political person. I just wanted to pass
along that Senator Obama came to Bagram Afghanistan
for about an hour on his visit to 'The War Zone'.

I wanted to share with you what happened. He
got off the plane and got into a bullet proof vehicle, got to the area
to meet with the Major General (2 Star) who is the commander here at
Bagram.

As the Soldiers were lined up to shake his hand
he blew them off and didn't say a word as he went into the
conference room to meet the General. As he finished,
the vehicles took him to the ClamShell(pretty
much a big top tent that military personnel
can play basketball or work out in with weights)
so he could take his publicity pictures playing
basketball. He
again shunned the opportunity
to talk to Soldiers to thank them for their service.

So really he was just here to make a showing
for the American's back home that he is their
candidate for President. I think that if you are
going to make an effort to come all the way over
here you would thank those that are providing the
freedom that they are providing for you.

I swear we got more thanks from the NBA
Basketball Players or the Dallas Cowboy
Cheerleaders than from one of the Senators,
who wants to be the President of the United States.
I just don't understand how anyone would
want him to be our Commander-and-Chief. It
was almost that he was scared to be around those
that provide the freedom for him and our great
country.

If this is blunt and to the point I am sorry
but I wanted you all to know what kind of
caliber of person he really is. What you see
in the news is all fake.

In service,
CPT Jeffrey S. Porter
Battle Captain, TF Wasatch
American Soldier

[fairbankswingers]

I (the male half) have only one issue I care about this election. It's not healthcare, inflation, high gas prices, the war...nope. The only issue I am concerned about is having "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" repealed as a policy in the military. I normally don't take too much stock into what politicians "promise", but Obama has said he will not only repeal the policy, but he will institute procedures for personnel that have been discharged under the policy to reenlist back in the military. This concerns me because I was discharged after 18yrs 10mos for being bisexual. So yeah, you can take one guess as to who I'm voting for this November.

I feel for you in the worse way...I am retired military (male half) and we were swingers in the military, wife was with girls (she was spouce) and I was with a couple of men, and it sucked so bad stress wise that we had to hide things about our lives just to keep a job...but I do not belive it will change, nor do I belive BHO will change anything and will just "change" himself

[ernieisready]

Sorry.....IF only the President actually had that kind of power! As I see it....as in the last 2 elections....we again have NO ONE to vote FOR, only against!




He represents all of our desires and aspirations as a nation. So much for this old style and the horrendous years of Bush. He represents change and change is what "we the people" want. Get out of Iraq where we should have never gotten into. Universal health care for all to lower oosts, no more pork barrell spending. Go for the real terrorists. Alternative enery solutions, etc. etc. Let's give him our vote and we will all win!!

[ernieisready]

Too bad this isn't common knowledge in the states OR reported by an "unbiased" press! SHAME ON THEM BOTH....God bless our men and women in the service to out great country! Thank You!!!



Here is another take on Obama:

This e-mail came from a very close friend of ours in Mankato, Minnesota who received this e-mail direct.
Below is her comment.


Subject: From our friend Jeff who is serving in Afghanistan

I don't know each of your personal political convictions, and apologize
if anyone finds this offensive. I thought it was important enough to
share.
This is Jeff's first hand view of Senator Obama.

---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Hello everyone,

As you know I am not a very political person. I just wanted to pass
along that Senator Obama came to Bagram Afghanistan
for about an hour on his visit to 'The War Zone'.

I wanted to share with you what happened. He
got off the plane and got into a bullet proof vehicle, got to the area
to meet with the Major General (2 Star) who is the commander here at
Bagram.

As the Soldiers were lined up to shake his hand
he blew them off and didn't say a word as he went into the
conference room to meet the General. As he finished,
the vehicles took him to the ClamShell(pretty
much a big top tent that military personnel
can play basketball or work out in with weights)
so he could take his publicity pictures playing
basketball. He
again shunned the opportunity
to talk to Soldiers to thank them for their service.

So really he was just here to make a showing
for the American's back home that he is their
candidate for President. I think that if you are
going to make an effort to come all the way over
here you would thank those that are providing the
freedom that they are providing for you.

I swear we got more thanks from the NBA
Basketball Players or the Dallas Cowboy
Cheerleaders than from one of the Senators,
who wants to be the President of the United States.
I just don't understand how anyone would
want him to be our Commander-and-Chief. It
was almost that he was scared to be around those
that provide the freedom for him and our great
country.

If this is blunt and to the point I am sorry
but I wanted you all to know what kind of
caliber of person he really is. What you see
in the news is all fake.

In service,
CPT Jeffrey S. Porter
Battle Captain, TF Wasatch
American Soldier

[patrick4U]

He's no better than McCain. Neither will do the US any good. The smartest thing "we the people" can do this time around is ban the elections until we can find someone who will actually accomplish something worthwhile while in office. We the People need unity and strong moral convictions and we're not going to get it from either party this November.

BAN THE VOTE

[BronzeBobby]

Obama:

Empty suit.
Fluff.
Smoke and mirrors.
A snake oil salesman.
Hack.
Trojan Horse.

But he's going to be the next president, so we have to get used to him. I just think he's going to be a political catastrophe for us. But we'll survive.

[Bi-Zarro]

Is anyone here planning on voting for Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney (Green Party)? Just curious.

[warmpuppy]

I notice that his intelligence drops quite a bit when the teleprompter is inactive.

This guy could win the state of Nebraska just by reciting recipes from the Betty Crocker cookbook. That's what disturbs me -- that people are falling in love with his speech-making skills and delivery and making their voting decision on that basis.

If you listen closely to his message, you'll find none there. He's nothing more than a rock star and people love his music. Problem is, not very many understand the lyrics.

[fallcrest]

It's all been said, but here's my 2 cents:
1) I don't trust anyone who SEEKS power.

2) The only reasons to vote for Obama are that he's black (not good enough reason) and he's NOT Bush (again, not good enough).

3) You don't vote according to what the candidate says he/she WILL do, you vote by what he/she HAS DONE. I'm from Illinois and Obama hasn't done diddly for us.

4) They all say they are for change. Clinton said he was for change and didn't do squat. (For those who think he gave us a great economy, check the facts, the economy was on the upswing before he took office.)

5) Third Parties don't stand a chance unless they are BIG. I refer you to Ross Perot. He had a chance until he flaked out.

6) For those who think that we Republicans are evil incarnate, one question: Why choose the LESSER of two evils? Try the GREATER, just once! LOL

[Randypan]

McCain = Bush Lite, Why would anyone go there?

[TaylorMade]

I notice that his intelligence drops quite a bit when the teleprompter is inactive.

This guy could win the state of Nebraska just by reciting recipes from the Betty Crocker cookbook. That's what disturbs me -- that people are falling in love with his speech-making skills and delivery and making their voting decision on that basis.

If you listen closely to his message, you'll find none there. He's nothing more than a rock star and people love his music. Problem is, not very many understand the lyrics.

I hear that from alot of people. . .I don't know. His book is well thought out. But, in a way, that's a prompted speech as well.

<Shrug>

*Taylor*

[TaylorMade]

It's all been said, but here's my 2 cents:
1) I don't trust anyone who SEEKS power.

2) The only reasons to vote for Obama are that he's black (not good enough reason) and he's NOT Bush (again, not good enough).

3) You don't vote according to what the candidate says he/she WILL do, you vote by what he/she HAS DONE. I'm from Illinois and Obama hasn't done diddly for us.

4) They all say they are for change. Clinton said he was for change and didn't do squat. (For those who think he gave us a great economy, check the facts, the economy was on the upswing before he took office.)

5) Third Parties don't stand a chance unless they are BIG. I refer you to Ross Perot. He had a chance until he flaked out.

6) For those who think that we Republicans are evil incarnate, one question: Why choose the LESSER of two evils? Try the GREATER, just once! LOL

Then just nominate a Cuthulu/Rove ticket if you really want to go for evil! Till then, you're just ...erm, bush league.

:tong:

*Taylor*

[open2both]

All style and placating promises.
And I can't afford the tax hikes!

[warmpuppy]

All style and placating promises.
And I can't afford the tax hikes!

Well, he's planning on $845 billion in NEW spending, while eliminating the Bush tax cuts. While his campaign insists that only successful people will be hit with new taxes, the math just doesn't work.

Add to that his reluctance to drill despite the polls showing that 75% of us want drilling, and you have all the ingredients of an elitist administration that feels superior to the people he purports to represent.

One final thought. With the resignation of Olmert, we can see a more hawkish, aggressive Government in Israel. This may not be the right time to hire a rookie to handle that challenge.

[chulainn2]

Right on Fallcrest!!
I will not vote for McCain for what he says ( he's really a demoooocrat) but I will vote for him because of what hussain obama says

[chulainn2]

Well, he's planning on $845 billion in NEW spending, while eliminating the Bush tax cuts. While his campaign insists that only successful people will be hit with new taxes, the math just doesn't work.

Add to that his reluctance to drill despite the polls showing that 75% of us want drilling, and you have all the ingredients of an elitist administration that feels superior to the people he purports to represent.

One final thought. With the resignation of Olmert, we can see a more hawkish, aggressive Government in Israel. This may not be the right time to hire a rookie to handle that challenge.

Dude, you ROCK!!!

[Rambigent]

Well, he's planning on $845 billion in NEW spending, while eliminating the Bush tax cuts. While his campaign insists that only successful people will be hit with new taxes, the math just doesn't work.

Add to that his reluctance to drill despite the polls showing that 75% of us want drilling, and you have all the ingredients of an elitist administration that feels superior to the people he purports to represent.

Just thought it important to note that it's 75% of REPUBLICANS who favor offshore drilling...only 35% of Dems support it...at least according to this article (http://www.mercurynews.com/centralcoast/ci_10058259). So Obama IS, technically, representing the folks he purports to represent - in his party at least.

I don't want to pay more taxes either, but I also don't see how we're gonna get out of this stupendous deficit the government has gotten our country in without everyone paying a little more. Although since I'm no millionaire I'd love to see the rich folks cover most of the tab. :bigrin:

I'm pretty torn on this election so far. I'm fairly liberal but I don't vote just on party lines. I've been watching Obama for a while and he is a fantastic orator, I like some of his ideas, but I'm still not sold on his ability to govern. I would have preferred Hillary, but oh well. I've always liked McCain as an individual, he seems intelligent and reasonable enough, but I disagree with him on a lot of the issues.

I'm gonna have to vote for SOMEONE on election day, I just hope at least one of these guys gives us all a strong reason to vote for them.

[hydropop]

Obama:

Empty suit.
Fluff.
Smoke and mirrors.
A snake oil salesman.
Hack.
Trojan Horse.

But he's going to be the next president, so we have to get used to him. I just think he's going to be a political catastrophe for us. But we'll survive.



I couldnt agree more Bobby. God save us all when he gets in office.

[Doggie_Wood]

If you vote for Obama - he's the president

If you vote for the third party - Obama's president

If you don't like any of them and don't vote - Obama's president

If you don't like any of them and don't want Obama as president .....


VOTE McCAIN

at least with McCain you are getting a true patriot to the US who doesn't beleive in the socialist style of government the liberals do.

just my :2cents: :tongue:

:doggie:

[IanBorthwick]

The more I see splashed anti-Obama, the more I trust him. The deep pockets of the religious right wing and the major levels of perfidy they can produce, as well as playing on people's base nature, all add up to my wanting Obama more. Experience in office..hmm, let me see how this applies. Our founding father's had never been in a United States Govt office before, but they did splendidly.

So a track record of being a senator or some other office is a mandate for being a good candidate? I'd have to disagree. I prefer someone with a dream they want to share as opposed to those with a hidden agenda.

As Bill maher said,"We took a chance and stuck with a president you'd want to have a beer with and got burned. But let's face it, the criteria for being president is 'Being and Exemplary Person'."

Obama IS an Exemplary person, proven repeatedly by all the potshots and character assaults he's weathered, as well as all the persons he's brought around to seeing his vision and created meetings of the mind. I want a president that makes alliances, not one that worships battlefields, bombs and bloody glory.

[incox]

Judging by some of the responses in here, I can see racism is still very much alive in this country. I'm sure that, if the man were white, 90% of the comments in here would be favorable. What a shame!

[TaylorMade]

Judging by some of the responses in here, I can see racism is still very much alive in this country. I'm sure that, if the man were white, 90&#37; of the comments in here would be favorable. What a shame!

None of the active members here (let's be honest ,the troll doesn't count) has mentioned race until you. They have mentioned:
His economic policies
his lack of experience
his connection to the Chicago machine
the "empty suit" phenomenon


But not race. . . to chalk up opposition to Obama to race alone is intellectual laziness and shows you really don't know the people of this board.

I swear, we use this word (racism/racist) so much, it has lost it's meaning.

*Taylor*

[incox]

None of the active members here (let's be honest ,the troll doesn't count) has mentioned race until you. They have mentioned:
His economic policies
his lack of experience
his connection to the Chicago machine
the "empty suit" phenomenon


But not race. . . to chalk up opposition to Obama to race alone is intellectual laziness and shows you really don't know the people of this board.

I swear, we use this word (racism/racist) so much, it has lost it's meaning.

*Taylor*
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the "veiled" comments of the people of this board. No one has to say "I'm a racist" to show their true colors.

[ready484u]

Well incox I guess you are just showing that you dont really know whats going on.

[chulainn2]

"Obama IS an Exemplary person, proven repeatedly by all the potshots and character assaults he's weathered,"

Ian, he's been kid handled by the media everyone is scared to say a thing about him from fear of being labeled racist.
You are way off here, if nothing else he's been catered to and basically spoiled and he is a whiner.

[chulainn2]

"The deep pockets of the religious right wing"

Ian, what about the deep pockets of the leftists fanatics that hate our country. And by the way are you implying that to be religious means your right wing?

[TaylorMade]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the "veiled" comments of the people of this board. No one has to say "I'm a racist" to show their true colors.

I know the people of this board ... some of them a little intimately. They gave real reasons, based on what they have observed and learned about Obama. It's you. . .someone who based on post count. . .is quite new to this forum, who claims to be able to see past the words of posters, into their true motivation.

Show me how you got to the conclusion that these posters are racist, other than their opposition/skepticism. Show me how they think he is a lesser human being because of the color of his skin.


*Taylor*

[Bisexualnewbie]

Have you heard this 2 faced prick when he has no teleprompter, he can't even say a full sentence, not saying John McCain is any better. Personally if I could vote it would be wasted this year because there is NO ONE worthy of the job.
What ever happened to the role of a politician being in office because of public duty and for the people instead of their own agenda's.
I mean who would want to spend so many millions trying to get into a job for $600,000 a year, I know why it because the job comes with perks and a shopping cart to pick up all the backhanders they all get.

Personally I hope the whole country comes crashing down I don't have an ounce of religion but I sure do have a few guns.

[incox]

I know the people of this board ... some of them a little intimately. They gave real reasons, based on what they have observed and learned about Obama. It's you. . .someone who based on post count. . .is quite new to this forum, who claims to be able to see past the words of posters, into their true motivation.

Show me how you got to the conclusion that these posters are racist, other than their opposition/skepticism. Show me how they think he is a lesser human being because of the color of his skin.


*Taylor*

Does being new to the forum disqualifies me?
BTW, I'm not black, I just know how the cookie crumbles in this country.
Enough said

[incox]

The more I see splashed anti-Obama, the more I trust him. The deep pockets of the religious right wing and the major levels of perfidy they can produce, as well as playing on people's base nature, all add up to my wanting Obama more. Experience in office..hmm, let me see how this applies. Our founding father's had never been in a United States Govt office before, but they did splendidly.

So a track record of being a senator or some other office is a mandate for being a good candidate? I'd have to disagree. I prefer someone with a dream they want to share as opposed to those with a hidden agenda.

As Bill maher said,"We took a chance and stuck with a president you'd want to have a beer with and got burned. But let's face it, the criteria for being president is 'Being and Exemplary Person'."

Obama IS an Exemplary person, proven repeatedly by all the potshots and character assaults he's weathered, as well as all the persons he's brought around to seeing his vision and created meetings of the mind. I want a president that makes alliances, not one that worships battlefields, bombs and bloody glory.

I wholeheartedly agree with you!

[TaylorMade]

Does being new to the forum disqualifies me?
BTW, I'm not black, I just know how the cookie crumbles in this country.
Enough said

Unless you have some form of PROOF that these posters are racist, other than their opinion of Obama. . .yes, it does disqualify you.

And are you implying that I don't "know how the cookie crumbles" because I won't agree with you? :rolleyes:

You haven't said much in your posts. . .all you have done is simply accuse people of being racist based SOELY on their opposition of Obama.

I'm not white, but I've got a good handle of how the cookie crumbles in this country too.


*Taylor*

[TaylorMade]

Have you heard this 2 faced prick when he has no teleprompter, he can't even say a full sentence, not saying John McCain is any better. Personally if I could vote it would be wasted this year because there is NO ONE worthy of the job.
What ever happened to the role of a politician being in office because of public duty and for the people instead of their own agenda's.
I mean who would want to spend so many millions trying to get into a job for $600,000 a year, I know why it because the job comes with perks and a shopping cart to pick up all the backhanders they all get.

Personally I hope the whole country comes crashing down I don't have an ounce of religion but I sure do have a few guns.

Bisexual, complaining about politicians and their corruption goes back to Rome, prolly earlier. (And many of them were more like us - - bisexual, pagan, pretty smart, and sorta decadent) Your question is ancient and what makes it so frustrating is because it's so true, and after 5 millenia, we still have no answer.

I'm gonna sound like an idiot, but. . . buck up. You won't be the first, and you won't be the last.

*Taylor*

[incox]

Unless you have some form of PROOF that these posters are racist, other than their opinion of Obama. . .yes, it does disqualify you.

And are you implying that I don't "know how the cookie crumbles" because I won't agree with you? :rolleyes:

You haven't said much in your posts. . .all you have done is simply accuse people of being racist based SOELY on their opposition of Obama.

I'm not white, but I've got a good handle of how the cookie crumbles in this country too.
Many other people understand what I'm saying. Enough said

*Taylor*

Many other people understand what I'm saying. Enough said!

[TaylorMade]

Many other people understand what I'm saying. Enough said!

So you don't have any proof other than the posters opposition to Obama, which is NOT race based, and by most logical definitions, not racist.

Hey. . . you do get this though, just for you.

http://media.g4tv.com/images/blog/2007/12/06/633325462873135493.jpg


*Taylor*

[darkeyes]

Mayb ya cant feel it touch it an prove it Taylor...it is well disguised by lotsa peeps.. but its ther nuntheless.. deep rooted an hard 2 get at. Jus as its ther down south by the fact the our PM is Scottish..it jus don sit well wiv lotsa English peeps. Summat sadly we havin 2 face. Shudn but ther we r... Jus as had Hils won the sexism wudda been ther an all in much the same way..

[TaylorMade]

Mayb ya cant feel it touch it an prove it Taylor...it is well disguised by lotsa peeps.. but its ther nuntheless.. deep rooted an hard 2 get at. Jus as its ther down south by the fact the our PM is Scottish..it jus don sit well wiv lotsa English peeps. Summat sadly we havin 2 face. Shudn but ther we r... Jus as had Hils won the sexism wudda been ther an all in much the same way..

I'm not saying that EVERYONE who opposes Obama does so on his own merits, but this poster was insinuating that the posters here oppose Obama based on his race. There are people who dislike the guy b/c he's black, no question, but - - the post that started it off said:


Judging by some of the responses in here, I can see racism is still very much alive in this country. I'm sure that, if the man were white, 90% of the comments in here would be favorable. What a shame!

And that was something I would not allow.

*Taylor*

[darkeyes]

Peeps on this site r but a microcosm a the world bout us. Ther r racists who r gay, bi an TG as ther r in all walks a life. Taylor, yas rite that not all who hav posted will b doin so cosa racist feelins but sum will hav an we cant escape that, woteva they say ther public reasons r. The points e made hav moren a germ a truth 2 'em, tho a bit sweepin an yas rite 2 challenge that. Sum peeps do oppose on policy principle and philosophy, not on sum daft irrational belief based on the cola of a persons skin. Sum of course r jus racist arseholes, an often its not easy 2 differentiate tween the 2.

[dafydd]

What choice have you got?

d

[incox]

So you don't have any proof other than the posters opposition to Obama, which is NOT race based, and by most logical definitions, not racist.

Hey. . . you do get this though, just for you.

http://media.g4tv.com/images/blog/2007/12/06/633325462873135493.jpg


*Taylor*

Oh boy! You're getting silly! I have no worries because I know he´s going to be our next president wether you like it or not.

[chulainn2]

If you vote for Obama - he's the president

If you vote for the third party - Obama's president

If you don't like any of them and don't vote - Obama's president

If you don't like any of them and don't want Obama as president .....


VOTE McCAIN

at least with McCain you are getting a true patriot to the US who doesn't beleive in the socialist style of government the liberals do.

just my :2cents: :tongue:

:doggie:


Hi 5's dogwood- woof woof

[TaylorMade]

Oh boy! You're getting silly! I have no worries because I know he&#180;s going to be our next president wether you like it or not.

I am getting as silly as your misdirections demand.

Anyhow ~~My question again.

Do you have any proof that the people on this forum are racist other than their opposition to Obama? Yes or no?

If you do not, then I suggest you apologize for your statements.

*Taylor*

[TaylorMade]

Peeps on this site r but a microcosm a the world bout us. Ther r racists who r gay, bi an TG as ther r in all walks a life. Taylor, yas rite that not all who hav posted will b doin so cosa racist feelins but sum will hav an we cant escape that, woteva they say ther public reasons r. The points e made hav moren a germ a truth 2 'em, tho a bit sweepin an yas rite 2 challenge that. Sum peeps do oppose on policy principle and philosophy, not on sum daft irrational belief based on the cola of a persons skin. Sum of course r jus racist arseholes, an often its not easy 2 differentiate tween the 2.

But the people on this forum (and on this thread specifically) have the right to be taken at their word and not smeared with the taint of racism due to their views of a political candidate, correct?

We both have interacted with enough people to know what racism looks like and sounds like. I don't think either of us would call any of the posters in this thread racist. Disagree, yeah, but racist?


*Taylor*

[Papelucho]

What I've noticed recently is that almost ALL discussions on race in this country are juvenile. Everyone is so quick to say "racist" or "not racist" that the whole point is being missed. An exception to this was Obama's speech on race in Philadelphia, which began to address the complexities. That was one of the most intelligent things I've ever heard spoken. That was THE most honest thing I've ever heard from a politician.

EVERYONE has a long way to go when it comes to race...That goes for all of the things that make people different.

Obama is not given enough credit for his ability to understand nuances. If McCain and Obama came to this forum, who would be first to actually understand how diverse our community is?

The answer to that is easy.

[TaylorMade]

What I've noticed recently is that almost ALL discussions on race in this country are juvenile. Everyone is so quick to say "racist" or "not racist" that the whole point is being missed. An exception to this was Obama's speech on race in Philadelphia, which began to address the complexities. That was one of the most intelligent things I've ever heard spoken. That was THE most honest thing I've ever heard from a politician.

EVERYONE has a long way to go when it comes to race...That goes for all of the things that make people different.

Obama is not given enough credit for his ability to understand nuances. If McCain and Obama came to this forum, who would be first to actually understand how diverse our community is?

The answer to that is easy.

Is it? I think both could understand how diverse we are.

It's just a question of what they were willing to do for us.


*Taylor*

[chulainn2]

"Obama is not given enough credit for his ability to understand nuances. If McCain and Obama came to this forum, who would be first to actually understand how diverse our community is?



Won't happen Pape, hussain obama is smart enough not to put himself in an arena without his teleprompter. he has turned down McCain's request more than once for a televised townhall debate. he is careful not to let the American public realize that he is only an empty suit for the democratic party.
btw, hope and change... what a fing joke!!!!

[Toad82]

"Obama is not given enough credit for his ability to understand nuances. If McCain and Obama came to this forum, who would be first to actually understand how diverse our community is?



Won't happen Pape, hussain obama is smart enough not to put himself in an arena without his teleprompter. he has turned down McCain's request more than once for a televised townhall debate. he is careful not to let the American public realize that he is only an empty suit for the democratic party.
btw, hope and change... what a fing joke!!!!

Once again, you're all about his middle name.

http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5695

[Rambigent]

... hussain obama is smart enough not to put himself in an arena without his teleprompter. he has turned down McCain's request more than once for a televised townhall debate.

Ok, I just read that Hussein Obama just accepted Sidney McCain's offer to hold three debates before the election. I think what chulainn2 is referring to is Sidney McCain's offer to have as many as 10 town hall meetings back in June to which Obama had countered with an offer to have two, one on the economy and one on foreign policy. From what I can tell they're not having any town hall meetings at this point.

So I know there are some differences between town hall meetings and formal debates, but do debates allow teleprompters? I don't think they do, but honestly I don't know for sure. Is that what you're saying chulainn?

Anyway, I am looking forward to the debates; I'm hoping to get more of a read on Hussein Obama and Sidney McCain than I've gotten from their sound bites so far. Based on what I've seen so far, both candidates are in support of environmental and ethics legislation that I agree with. But Hussein Obama supports Roe v. Wade and is opposed to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and the Defense of Marriage Act, while Sidney McCain wants to work to overturn Roe v. Wade and supports "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and the Defense of Marriage Act. That pretty much makes my mind up for me right there, but I'm trying to keep an open mind at the moment.

[incox]

I am getting as silly as your misdirections demand.

Anyhow ~~My question again.

Do you have any proof that the people on this forum are racist other than their opposition to Obama? Yes or no?

If you do not, then I suggest you apologize for your statements.

*Taylor*

I don't have to apologize for anything. You need any more proof than the use of Obama's middle name constantly? Don't you think that's a not so veiled way of being a racist? What do you think the real intent of using Hussein over and over is? I'm a grown person and I've been around to be able to read between the lines. If you want to ignore those clues to make a point then you're ignoring that facts.

[TaylorMade]

I don't have to apologize for anything. You need any more proof than the use of Obama's middle name constantly? Don't you think that's a not so veiled way of being a racist? What do you think the real intent of using Hussein over and over is? I'm a grown person and I've been around to be able to read between the lines. If you want to ignore those clues to make a point then you're ignoring that facts.



I know Chulainn. . .he's not a racist. He may be occasionally prickly and I don't agree with him. . .I think the use of Obama's middle name in a pejorative manner is obnoxious and cheap. But racist?

Don't play your age with me. I've seen 60 year old fools and 20 year olds that are wise beyond their years.

As you can tell, I haven't ignored what he's said, but I am NOT ignoring WHO that person is. . .and he's not a racist. Unless you can read his mind or something. . .

*Taylor*

[chulainn2]

Thank you Taylor as always a great person and as you said I am not a racist.
Since no one here knows me or my friends, to label me a racist is petty and unfounded.
But labeling is what liberals do so well.

Taylor, prickly? me?

[TaylorMade]

Thank you Taylor as always a great person and as you said I am not a racist.
Since no one here knows me or my friends, to label me a racist is petty and unfounded.
But labeling is what liberals do so well.

Taylor, prickly? me?

Yea, but it's cute. ;)

*Taylor*

[Toad82]

Sidney McCain


Funny!

[darkeyes]

Unless you can read his mind or something. . .

*Taylor*U do mind readin like Taylor? Works both ways...;)

[darkeyes]

Thank you Taylor as always a great person and as you said I am not a racist.
Since no one here knows me or my friends, to label me a racist is petty and unfounded.
But labeling is what liberals do so well.

Taylor, prickly? me?

Don think yas a racist eitha Chewy babes.. but wen it cums 2 labellin that goes both ways an all... but jus ansa me this point... wot is the reason for usin Obama's middle name? Incox dus hav a point wich mayb ya shud mull ova inya mind...

[MetaSexual2]

But labeling is what liberals do so well.

ROTFL... Oh the irony.

[incox]

They ain't foolin' anyone!!

[TaylorMade]

U do mind readin like Taylor? Works both ways...;)

No, but incox played the race card first, based on suspicion and simple opposition.

In this case, absence of evidence is absence of evidence... simple as that. I'm not denying there are people who dislike Obama based on the color of his skin, but what I am saying is there is little to no evidence to accuse people on this forum of this, which is what incox is doing.

*Taylor*

[TaylorMade]

They ain't foolin' anyone!!

So, you have proof people on this thread are racist, then?

*Taylor*

[allbimyself]

They ain't foolin' anyone!!
IOW, "I know what I know, I don't have to prove it!" I happen to plan on voting for Obama, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that everyone that plans on voting against him is doing so because he's half black. Some surely, just like there are some that are voting FOR him for the same reason. Neither one is a good reason.

[darkeyes]

IOW, "I know what I know, I don't have to prove it!" I happen to plan on voting for Obama, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that everyone that plans on voting against him is doing so because he's half black. Some surely, just like there are some that are voting FOR him for the same reason. Neither one is a good reason.....'part from the fact me cant vote for 'im.. WILL U STOP BLOODY AGREEIN WIV ME U!!!!!!!:tong:

U gettin me a bad name!!!!:bigrin:

[allbimyself]

....'part from the fact me cant vote for 'im.. WILL U STOP BLOODY AGREEIN WIV ME U!!!!!!!:tong:

U gettin me a bad name!!!!:bigrin:Sorry, fran. I couldn't tell which side you were on.

[darkeyes]

So, you have proof people on this thread are racist, then?

*Taylor*
.. spose hun no more than u can prove they aint... sum will tho lots won'..jus the law of averages... eitha way neitha claim can b substantiated so call it quits an start rowin bout summat useful....:tong:

[darkeyes]

Sorry, fran. I couldn't tell which side you were on.

Well put it this way...if ther wer a decent propa socialist candidate we wud b on diff sides me wud think.. then we cud hav sum gud argy bargies!!!:bigrin:

[allbimyself]

.. spose hun no more than u can prove they aint... sum will tho lots won'..jus the law of averages... eitha way neitha claim can b substantiated so call it quits an start rowin bout summat useful....:tong:

Taylor's point, that you seem to be missing, is NOT that racism doesn't exist, but that the premise that anyone that has expressed a preference for McCain over Obama does so because they are racist is totally bogus.

That is a USEFUL thing to discuss.

[TaylorMade]

Taylor's point, that you seem to be missing, is NOT that racism doesn't exist, but that the premise that anyone that has expressed a preference for McCain over Obama does so because they are racist is totally bogus.

That is a USEFUL thing to discuss.

It's anyone on this thread...allbi.. <blush>

Incox implied that people on this thread preferred McCain based on race. There will be people that do so, but from what I saw in the thread and based on what I knew of the posters, I didn't see that.

<shrug>

*Taylor*

[csrakate]

I think it is sad that if you voice a displeasure over a black candidate that you automatically get labeled as a racist. It is ignorant to believe that just because you don't support Obama for president means you aren't open to the idea of a black president....perhaps they just are not ready for THIS MAN to be president. Why can't discussions that pertain to Obama's readiness as a Presidential candidate be seen as something that is purely about the individual and not his race???? In addition, to vote for someone purely on the basis that they are a certain race is certainly ignorant as well.

[allbimyself]

incox obviously has some problems with race, kate. He can only see Obama's skin color so obviously that's all anyone else sees.

[Papelucho]

Everyone is racist in their own way, the sooner the country can admit that, the better off we are. It's normal for us to have a problem, slavery was a fucked up thing, and it's never been healed.

Bickering about who's racist and who's not makes everyone look stupid, and the candidates were smart enough to stop that. I have racist thoughts sometimes. I'm not proud of it but I can't control everything that passes through my mind. I can react though, and admit that sometimes I'm ignorant, and then use my intelligence to prove myself wrong. Which is all I can ever expect of anyone else.

[incox]

It's anyone on this thread...allbi.. <blush>

Incox implied that people on this thread preferred McCain based on race. There will be people that do so, but from what I saw in the thread and based on what I knew of the posters, I didn't see that.

<shrug>

*Taylor*

EXCUSE ME!!!!! I stopped making any comments but based on this post I have to respond and I do think I need an apology from you! Don't you put any words in my mouth! If you read back all of my comments, I never said nor implied that people on this thread preferred McCain based on race. I never mention any name, in fact. Go back and read, dammit (now I'm mad).

[TaylorMade]

EXCUSE ME!!!!! I stopped making any comments but based on this post I have to respond and I do think I need an apology from you! Don't you put any words in my mouth! If you read back all of my comments, I never said nor implied that people on this thread preferred McCain based on race. I never mention any name, in fact. Go back and read, dammit (now I'm mad).

You said initally...


Judging by some of the responses in here, I can see racism is still very much alive in this country. I'm sure that, if the man were white, 90&#37; of the comments in here would be favorable. What a shame!

I rest my case. BTW, do you have any proof that the posters in this thread are racist other than their opinions on Obama?

*Taylor*

[incox]

You said initally...



I rest my case. BTW, do you have any proof that the posters in this thread are racist other than their opinions on Obama?

*Taylor*

Need I repeat over and over about the use of Hussein? Did I ever mention names of any person in here or of any candidate?

[TaylorMade]

Need I repeat over and over about the use of Hussein? Did I ever mention names of any person in here or of any candidate?

It was discussed, and even the person referenced spoke up. You don't even NEED to mention names, it was perfectly clear.

But you never answered my question. Do you have any proof that the posters in this thread are racist other than their opinions on Obama?

*Taylor*

[csrakate]

Judging by some of the responses in here, I can see racism is still very much alive in this country. I'm sure that, if the man were white, 90&#37; of the comments in here would be favorable. What a shame!

Sorry incox...but she has you here....this comment alone says it all..."if the man were white, 90% of the comments in here would be favorable"....you may not have meant it the way it was worded...but it very clearly states that you find the comments posted in this thread to be racist. I surely don't see 90% of the comments making mention of the name "Hussein" so don't try attributing your comment to that alone. At the point where you made the above statement, only one person had used that name....so clearly you are basing your assumption on what you perceive to be racist....comments that were simply not endorsing him as a candidate. That is not racism but simple freedom of speech....and to say otherwise is just plain ignorant.

[rissababynta]

well, i know i'm voting for Obama cause I hate white people.





:eek:




haha

[RickB]

I dreamt last night that I spent time with Barak Obama. Nothing sexual, I just dreamt that he was in London and that he was doing another campaign visit. It was pretty cool. I feel quite strongly about politics and I think Barak could do the world a load of good.

[darkeyes]

There r sevral things wich cud, arguably justify suspicion at least that the poster hav racist tendencies.. 1 is the mention of the now infamous "Hussein" by Chewy.. anotha is Falcon Angel's mention a needin "Real Americans in office...". In neitha case dus me believe eitha Chewy or Falcon Angel 2 b racist..hav read enuff a their stuff 2 know it jus aint the case... tho Inbox dont.. an sure mayb he shudda thot a lil fore e got on is soap box..but wtf..we all go ova the top sumtime. Yea an me included... moren most prob. (Noooo...sayeth the Allbi).

Howeva....there is 1 lil post that me has sum concern wiv.. that is Bronze Bobby wiv his mention a Obama bein a "Trojan Horse". Taken alongside Chu an 'is use a "Hussein" surely ya can c mayb jus wy Inbox got so het up. Actually am very dubious bout Bobby's use a the phrase in the context a this lil spat espesh as in moren 1 quarter in the US, sum peeps hav cast doubt on Obama's patriotism an even 'is religion.. The use a ne of these terms cud get peeps hackles up in the context a this election an the guy in question. an mayb peeps shud jus think a lil fore they use terms wich can an do sumtimes hav precisely the meanin 2 wich Inbox is atributin 2 them.

They mite b tenuous lil pieces a evidence 2 Kate, Taylor, Allbi et al, but 2 sum they can b used as evidence that policy alone aint the issues on wich the campaign will b fought. there will b more such arguments over the next few months, an even shud Obama get elected, in sum quarters accustations a racism will becum increasingly overt.. mayb even in these threads..

For now tho..we shud b arguin the issues..not the man... certainly not 'is race... not even 'is strengths an weaknesses, cos fact is we nun of us has a clue bout them, not reely, cept from afar. If an wen e gets elected then we will c an b able 2 tell more an b able 2 comment wiv sum reel knowledge.. That's wy me thinks this argument shud cease an get down 2 the real nitty gritty that concerns the 'merican people, an by default those of us who have no vote in the election, the rest a the planet!

[Iowabiguy]

I am a pragmatic Democrat. Yes, I am very liberal as I suspect most of you are too. I figure that the religious right has their hands too deep in the pockets of the Republican Party. In order to get rights for LGBT people in this country and that includes all levels; federal, state, military we have to vote for the party that will give us the most rights and protections. Do the Democrats always get it right? No, but when they have the majority and the Presidency they will have a much better chance to do things right for LGBT people across the country. It's simple math, when you vote for any Republican it lessens the chance for a majority of Democrats to control the Senate or House. That in turn means if the Republicans regain control the Democrats LOSE CONTROL of the COMMITTEES which is where the true power is in congress.
Being bisexual in these times can be difficult with homophobia and biphobia everywhere. Let's not let the close-minded people of the world win and put a Republican back in office.

[incox]

well, i know i'm voting for Obama cause I hate white people.





:eek:




haha

Now, I have to say , there's no reason to talk about hate in this forum.
LOVE is the answer!

[casio]

I do not post very much but there are a few things about Obama that stinks. His liberal ideas and associates are way to far and out of bounds. His idea of increasing taxes will cause more trouble for the economy, and he wants to give it to programs that have never worked. His $850 plus billion to the UN is to fund the poor in Africa, but lets be honest, that money would never get to the people who deserve it, it would go to the ruling parties of the country for weapons or their bank accounts.

Obama, "Horrible" Clinton, John "the idiot" Kerry, Ted "the drunk" Kennedy, and "the witch" Pelosi are in bed with the likes of George Soros, who hates this country and is trying to tear it down. Every move these people make, every vote they cast is for a Socialistic Society and has been against our Constitution and against the desires and needs of the PEOPLE of this REPUBLIC. They want a form of Government that has failed repeatedly, look at France, THEY want a SOCIALISTIC form of Government, a system that has the PEOPLE dependant on the Government where the Government will supply everything for every need (sounds a little like Communism, doesn't it) but what will be given in return? Our "independance", our "Liberties", our "Free Will", our Freedom of "Thought", our "Security" will be in question and most important "OUR CONSTITUTION" will be torn apart.

Obama has tried to cast himself as a "BLACK AMERICAN." Why? Because his skin is black? No, it is because he wants the Black vote. He has claimed that he knows the Black American problems, this is B.S.. He was raised in a "WHITE" wolrd by his far Left Liberal white mother and far left Liberal Grand Parents. He attended the most prestigous and expensive private high school in Hawaii. His College education was paid by his Grand Parents. He has lived a privledged life, a life most can not afford. You can not believe anything this man has said or will say. He is a National Security risk and as he said himself, he would embrase the Muslim World. He was raised a Muslim, his religous mentor was a Muslim who allegedly converted to Christianity. Obama's relatives in Kenya are all far left Muslims, his step father is a Indonesian Muslim and he attended school in Indonesia and was registered as a Muslim and again, as he has said, can recite the Koran in Arabic.

Do I like McCain as president? No but I have to vote for him for at least he has more knowledge, more experience and will think more of what is best for the people and the country where Obama will only think of himself and his handlers. McCain is a patriot! Obama will sell this country to the highest bidder(s) like George Soros. McCain will not give in to terrorism! Obama has already done that just as have PEANUT BRAIN Carter and the Witch Pelosi.

[darkeyes]

I do not post very much but there are a few things about Obama that stinks. His liberal ideas and associates are way to far and out of bounds. His idea of increasing taxes will cause more trouble for the economy, and he wants to give it to programs that have never worked. His $850 plus billion to the UN is to fund the poor in Africa, but lets be honest, that money would never get to the people who deserve it, it would go to the ruling parties of the country for weapons or their bank accounts.

Obama, "Horrible" Clinton, John "the idiot" Kerry, Ted "the drunk" Kennedy, and "the witch" Pelosi are in bed with the likes of George Soros, who hates this country and is trying to tear it down. Every move these people make, every vote they cast is for a Socialistic Society and has been against our Constitution and against the desires and needs of the PEOPLE of this REPUBLIC. They want a form of Government that has failed repeatedly, look at France, THEY want a SOCIALISTIC form of Government, a system that has the PEOPLE dependant on the Government where the Government will supply everything for every need (sounds a little like Communism, doesn't it) but what will be given in return? Our "independance", our "Liberties", our "Free Will", our Freedom of "Thought", our "Security" will be in question and most important "OUR CONSTITUTION" will be torn apart.

Obama has tried to cast himself as a "BLACK AMERICAN." Why? Because his skin is black? No, it is because he wants the Black vote. He has claimed that he knows the Black American problems, this is B.S.. He was raised in a "WHITE" wolrd by his far Left Liberal white mother and far left Liberal Grand Parents. He attended the most prestigous and expensive private high school in Hawaii. His College education was paid by his Grand Parents. He has lived a privledged life, a life most can not afford. You can not believe anything this man has said or will say. He is a National Security risk and as he said himself, he would embrase the Muslim World. He was raised a Muslim, his religous mentor was a Muslim who allegedly converted to Christianity. Obama's relatives in Kenya are all far left Muslims, his step father is a Indonesian Muslim and he attended school in Indonesia and was registered as a Muslim and again, as he has said, can recite the Koran in Arabic.

Do I like McCain as president? No but I have to vote for him for at least he has more knowledge, more experience and will think more of what is best for the people and the country where Obama will only think of himself and his handlers. McCain is a patriot! Obama will sell this country to the highest bidder(s) like George Soros. McCain will not give in to terrorism! Obama has already done that just as have PEANUT BRAIN Carter and the Witch Pelosi.

Stik 2 keyboards hun.. ya havnt a clue wotyas talkin bout wen it cums 2 Obama an socialism. He has no intention wotsoeva a turnin the US inta a socialist state.. nowt he has sed..an nowt in his politics suggest a whit a socialism. He is a wishy washy liberal (European connotation ere..not 'merican) wiv a social conscience..nuthin more... yas typical a many rite wing 'mericans.. sum 1 remotely left a centre an they a commie or socialist..mucky word ova ther for many innit?

Obama intends 2 retain the US dominance a the world jus like every otha Presidential candidate ova the last century.. he intends that 'merican business will still, far as 'e is able 2 ensure, continue 2 hav its mucky fingies in as many pies internationally as it can..'e intends the US will still b overwhelmingly the mos powerful nation on earth.. sure 'e hopes 2 do summat for the less well off, an ordinary workin peeps.. a decent health care susytem wud b a start wer peeps don havta bankrupt themselves for decnt care an otha social advances wich wud make the US a more carin place for its citizens.. that don make a nation socialist.. it makes it responsive 2 the needs of its peeps... socialism is a whole new ball game..an not wot u think it is... ya shows ya ignorance.. sure things will cost money..an tax is the only money govts hav... mayb loppin a few thousand mill offa the defence budget wud help an rechannel it 2 more socially useful an productive instead a destructive areas. Bout world peace an terrorism, mayb he will b less obnixious an abrasive than Bushie, but remain unconvinced a that in the medium 2 long term...

Obama a socialist? Don talk bollox..pik up sum readin material an find out wot socialism is an c how ya claim stands up...

Now me a socialist..wud turn the whole place upside down an how ur country wos run wud b entirely diff from ne thin obama proposes or envisages... so do sum study..an not only rite wing rag study eitha!!

Won accuse ya of racism.. cos per se nowt yas sed is racist, tho cosa wot has been sed b fore in this thread, am not convinced ther not a hint, an undercurrent of it..but it is definately immensely intolerant an contemptuous of Islam, an it is opinions such as urs wich is 1 a the main reasons that Islamic nations, an Islamic peeps loathe the US an don trust it... an 2 pik up onya point..mayb jus mayb..the US embracin the Muslim world mite b no bad thing..don mean ya havta convert 2 it.. jus work wiv, listen 2 an respect it... if Obama has ne reason 2 b voted for..mayb thats 1..

[ready484u]

dark eyes by your responce to casio I can tell you are not from this country and really dont know whats going on here.You talk like you do but thats pretty much all it is is talk with nothing to back it up with.You may know whats going on in the UK but it shows you only think you know whats going on here.You go on and on with no subtance,stick to something you know about and not something you think you know about.By the way I am a democrat.

[darkeyes]

dark eyes by your responce to casio I can tell you are not from this country and really dont know whats going on here.You talk like you do but thats pretty much all it is is talk with nothing to back it up with.You may know whats going on in the UK but it shows you only think you know whats going on here.You go on and on with no subtance,stick to something you know about and not something you think you know about.By the way I am a democrat.

Look moosh.. me mayb dunno wot goes on the the US as well as a native who livs ther but me keeps mesel pretty well informed.. since yas think ya rule the roost an think yas can shuv ya big nebs in ne wer ya like..an often dus..its in our interests 2 keep ourselves up 2 date as best we can wiv jus wot is goin on ova ther.. put it this way..the Brit press, the Brit media, the european press an media are fulla wot is happnin ova ther.. also me reads lotsa books an mags (american 1s an all) on the US an they not travel books eitha... am a political animal an an active memba a the Labour party who likes as best she can 2 keep abreast a wots goin on ne wer in the world.. am not perfect by ne means, an ther r huge gaps in me knowledge wich me wud like 2 fill.. an take the time 2 do it an all. Put it this way..am willin 2 take a bet me knows a lot more bout wot goes on in ur country than u dus a mine... an mos haff decently well informed an intelligent Europeans will an all..

Ya may not like owt me sez an thats ur rite.. but me ansa 2 casio cums from his post an ignorance a wot socialism actually is..an 'is intolerance of a religion wich a very large parta the world practices.. his comments wer ignorant, intolerant an odious. Unless a course u sayin Obama is a socialist.. or that his past an 'is politics r gonna ruin the US, an ya agree wiv im that Islam is obviously less than nice... bout botha them me can giveya a very well informed an rite gud barney bout..

So don u dare try an lecture me bout wetha or not me knows or dus not know ne thin... from afar.. we get a pretty decent idea a wot goes on in the US an who stands for wot.. who likes wot an who dusnt... cos hun, its in our interests, far as the US is concerned., 2 do so...

[jamieknyc]

Sorry incox...but she has you here....this comment alone says it all..."if the man were white, 90% of the comments in here would be favorable"....you may not have meant it the way it was worded...but it very clearly states that you find the comments posted in this thread to be racist. .

If the man were white, he would just be another face in the crowd of politicians wanting to run for president, and no one here would ever have heard of him except for policy wonks.

[MetaSexual2]

If the man were white, he would just be another face in the crowd of politicians wanting to run for president, and no one here would ever have heard of him except for policy wonks.

Jamie, can you name one other politician in the US right now that has the same level of oratory skills as Obama? I'm a politics junkie and I cant think of one other politician on the national (or international for that matter) stage who generates the kind of excitement that Obama does. The man has some serious charisma and has an uncommon level of intelligence (for politicians). Whether you like his policy or not, you still have to admire his considerable political skills to put himself into the position he is now. No matter what colour his skin was he would still be a major player, especially given the general environment of incompetence that exists in US politics right now.

[ready484u]

Like I said dark eyes bla bla bla bla you said nothing that had any meaning or substance or proff again.

[darkeyes]

Like I said dark eyes bla bla bla bla you said nothing that had any meaning or substance or proff again.

Arsehole.. an that says moren u eva uttered in ya life..

[bigmouthbass]

Personally, I think he' s an empty suit. But others think he's the new messiah.
What do you think?

One has to wonder who would the terrorists want to see in power, someone who refuses to salute the American flag, says he will be sworn in on the koran, not the Bible, and has promised 7% of our GNP to overseas interests. Can't wait to see the new tax increases, and the fighting in our own backyard, instead of overseas, in the sandbox. Go get some experience in the real world and come back in a few years. Got to go with the old man on this election. Sorry, but he was a POW and he salutes the flag, and doesn't want to hand our country over to the terrorists, other than that he's not much of a better choice, but this is my country and I want a leader who supports it.

[Meinbruder]

I’m not sure I agree with that first statement. At a rally he clearly said, “America is the greatest nation on earth and we can change it”. I will concede your point on the teleprompter. I’m with you the rest of the way in; there is no one in this election to vote FOR. Only against.

McCain represents business as usual and has a visible record in politics, one with far too many black stains for me. Obama is indeed an empty suit with no voting record, not only a freshman Senator but a Chicago Democrat. Anyone who thinks he should be elected needs to read a book called Obama Nation by Jerome Corsi. He is indeed a socialist and will change this country significantly.

I’ve been planning to write in Ron Paul but just might vote for Obama after all. I think his Presidency will cause that crash and trigger a new revolution. The soapbox has split this country in two and there is delusion on both sides of the divide. The ballot box will speak in November.

Ya’ll make sure your cartridge box is full now, when the crash comes; you won’t be able to buy one.



Have you heard this 2 faced prick when he has no teleprompter, he can't even say a full sentence, not saying John McCain is any better. Personally if I could vote it would be wasted this year because there is NO ONE worthy of the job.
What ever happened to the role of a politician being in office because of public duty and for the people instead of their own agenda's.
I mean who would want to spend so many millions trying to get into a job for $600,000 a year, I know why it because the job comes with perks and a shopping cart to pick up all the backhanders they all get.

Personally I hope the whole country comes crashing down I don't have an ounce of religion but I sure do have a few guns.

[allbimyself]

One has to wonder who would the terrorists want to see in power, someone who refuses to salute the American flag, says he will be sworn in on the koran, not the Bible, and has promised 7% of our GNP to overseas interests. Can't wait to see the new tax increases, and the fighting in our own backyard, instead of overseas, in the sandbox. Go get some experience in the real world and come back in a few years. Got to go with the old man on this election. Sorry, but he was a POW and he salutes the flag, and doesn't want to hand our country over to the terrorists, other than that he's not much of a better choice, but this is my country and I want a leader who supports it.FINALLY! There ya go, incox. This one IS racist.

[Bi-Zarro]

How anyone in a forum like this could support McCain over Obama -- whatever Obama's flaws, and from my admittedly left-wing point of view (hi, comrade Darkeyes), there are plenty -- is beyond me. I guess some of you -- or at least one of you -- don't mind having someone who panders to the homophobic religious Right in the White House. Geez.

[Randypan]

One has to wonder who would the terrorists want to see in power, someone who refuses to salute the American flag, says he will be sworn in on the koran, not the Bible, and has promised 7&#37; of our GNP to overseas interests. Can't wait to see the new tax increases, and the fighting in our own backyard, instead of overseas, in the sandbox. Go get some experience in the real world and come back in a few years. Got to go with the old man on this election. Sorry, but he was a POW and he salutes the flag, and doesn't want to hand our country over to the terrorists, other than that he's not much of a better choice, but this is my country and I want a leader who supports it.

I want to see where you are getting this kind of crap! Who besides the military "Salutes" the flag? As civilians we stand and place our hand over our heart and who says he has refused to do this? And in what sick imagination has he ever said he would be sworn in on the Koran? You idiot! He's not Muslim. And as for tax increases, We as Americans pay nearly the lowest taxes and expect the impossible to be done with what we do pay. The only way we are going to be able to fund health care, education and the military is for we Americans to step up and pay for it.

[darkeyes]

Ahaaaaa!!! Penny finally drops..wotta thicko me is sumtimes.. me thinks we hav a loada lil trollies spreadin misleadin incoherent racist claptrap an untruths on site... an sumhow don think ne of 'em r bi or gay.. naughty boys! Bak 2 sewers guys an behave yasels...

[damit1963]

I have to say something here. I usually stay out of these "political" conversations, but this has turned into something different than the first posts.

I am a white ex-military male. With that said I have to say I don't feel I am prejudice to race but to people that throw race out on the table. I hate being slandered and people that use slander on others. I could care less if you are black, white, yellow or purple, if you are smart and can talk like a knowledgeable fool, I'll listen. When this whole political race started I was all for Obama, BUT the more I listened, the less I was hearing. In one speech he'd tell me something I wanted to hear, later he started steering a different direction, and again later on he was heading a different direction, until he was totally going the opposite way of the original speech. I started looking at his voting record. He was for some of the things I was interested in, and against others, no problem, that happens all the time. The more I dug though the more I realized he was absent during, or abstained from, some of the biggest votes to help or hurt the country. I didn't like that he didn't wear an American flag on his lapel, I didn't like how he turned away from the flag during the national anthem, he just kept pushing me further away with every thing he did. I will say he is a great orator, but as a politician I'd vote for, I'm looking for a little more proof that he means what he says. So far he hasn't got a lot in his history to back up what he is saying he'll do.


I don't have to apologize for anything. You need any more proof than the use of Obama's middle name constantly? Don't you think that's a not so veiled way of being a racist? What do you think the real intent of using Hussein over and over is? I'm a grown person and I've been around to be able to read between the lines. If you want to ignore those clues to make a point then you're ignoring that facts.

Now as for the above comment, I'm not sure about everyone else but if I was to see his name and no picture associated with the man I'd say he was middle eastern, and possibly a Muslim.

[damit1963]

One has to wonder who would the terrorists want to see in power, someone who refuses to salute the American flag, says he will be sworn in on the koran, not the Bible, and has promised 7% of our GNP to overseas interests. Can't wait to see the new tax increases, and the fighting in our own backyard, instead of overseas, in the sandbox. Go get some experience in the real world and come back in a few years. Got to go with the old man on this election. Sorry, but he was a POW and he salutes the flag, and doesn't want to hand our country over to the terrorists, other than that he's not much of a better choice, but this is my country and I want a leader who supports it.

Just wanted to put out this Snopes article along these lines

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

[TaylorMade]

How anyone in a forum like this could support McCain over Obama -- whatever Obama's flaws, and from my admittedly left-wing point of view (hi, comrade Darkeyes), there are plenty -- is beyond me. I guess some of you -- or at least one of you -- don't mind having someone who panders to the homophobic religious Right in the White House. Geez.

Obama changed course on Same sex marriage... intially he said he was against it, now he's for it? I followed it in the Advocate, probably could dig it up if you wanted to see it. I'm sorry, as a black candidate, I doubt he's going to make major overtures to the gay or bi community, lest he lose black voters.
I feel sympathy for Obama (he's even said it in his own book), in that he's a blank slate - -a device his supporters are projecting their hopes and dreams on. I still see it like this: he's politics as usual in a shinier package. And to assume we would all march in lockstep is like assuming all religious people align Right.

We are all different, Zarro. . .we all vote different ways, though we may all share an orientation.

*Taylor*

[damit1963]

Speaking of a lot of the things said here, including ones by me, here is a site that attempts to refute the truth from the lies.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/flip-o-meter/

[MetaSexual2]

Taylor - the Obama flip on gay marriage is a step in the right direction and he has made significant overtures to the gay community and has spoken frankly to the black commuity about predjudice. See the Ebezener Church Speech on 20 Jan for a good example. Politicians should be commended for policy shifts made after serious consideration of issues, as opposed to policy shifts based on poll-following. His flips on the telecomms immunity bill and offshore drilling are more troubling, but he is still by far the better leader in direct comparison with McCain.

Under a McCain administration you would likely see one or more additional ideologue Supreme Court Justices, further erosion of civil rights, a completely incoherent economic policy, a belligerent foreign policy, and continued pandering to Big Oil and the idiot wing of the Republican party. Over the last few years McCain sold his soul to the Bush administration and to the InsanoChristian movement (Taylor - don't take this as a slight against Christian's in general - its just seems the evangelicals in the US have gone completely mad, and no longer reflect what are ostensibly Christian values). Furthermore, I think it is a very strong possibility McCain has early stage dementia. I don't believe McCain has any chance of being an effective executive, whereas Obama very well could.

I'm a centrist voter and have voted Libertarian, Democrat, and Republican in the past (btw - Hubby - American, Wife - Brit) but I don't think I will be voting for a Republican for a very long time given the level of corruption and utter lack of competence the Republican party has displayed over the last 16 years. The Democrats are only marginally better, but they apparently still at least sometimes realize the difference between reality and fiction and give lip service to ethical principles. I'm just hoping that if the Republicans receive a big enough ass kicking this fall that principled conservatism will somehow reappear. It is really sickening to see the moronic talking points here and in the US media that attempt to pass as poitical discourse. The US needs to get its shit together, NOW, for its own sake and the sake of the free world - a resurgent Russia and China make this more crtical than ever.

[sammie19]

I know american politics only from what I see on TV or read in the press. However it seems to me that a vote for McCain by bisexual people is like turkeys voting for Christmas.

[darkeyes]

I know american politics only from what I see on TV or read in the press. However it seems to me that a vote for McCain by bisexual people is like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Interestin dichotomy Sam innit? Me membersip a the Labour Party is bein given reel personal reconsideration for otha more wide rangin an philosophical reasons, but on this issue... wich is mos important 2 us? Our principles or our personal freedoms? On the 1 hand we believe wiv pash in, as in me own case, socialism, or in sum 1 elses case, the free market an the capitalist system, or ne thin else for that matta. The candidate or party wich mos closely reflects our principles an the society we wanna c cum 2 fruition, decides or is actively anti gay an will stand on a platform of criminalisin an suppressin all such activity an liberty. It is the ONLY party wich reflects our belief's wot our society shud b, cept in this 1 area. Wot do we do?

Can we for instance vote for a party wich is racist yet pro gay? Or the Tories wich stand for a political system wich is abhorrent 2 us yet will fite on a more tolerant platform re homosexuality? Or do we jus sit an hide an abstain on principle an hope that it will all go away? They r merely hypothetical scenarios yet not unbelievable.

As a memba of a party wich is pro gay rites an has implemented so many of the rites of gay an bi peeps ova the last half century, how cud me stay there shud that party decide 2 reverse its long standin policies on those issues? Sure, wud stay until such times as defeat wos de facto, but afta? Wer cud me an peeps like me go? Who do we vote for? Wile the party wich in all otha ways reflects me aspirations. cud me vote for 1 wich is the opposite in all otha ways?

Wich is mos important 2 me? Me personal freedom 2 b a lesbian wivout fear, or me overall belief in the society me wishes 2 c? Not an easy decision, yet wivout bein truly free, an bein able 2 b the person me is, warts an all, can me b true 2 mesel in votin for a party or candidate wich is anti me as an individual, even tho in every otha way it stands for the society me wishes 2 c? That is the question 'mericans shud b askin themselves,, or 1 close 2 it... kno in my case, me cudn do it..cudn vote for ne party wich suppresses the rites of ne 1 2 b who they r an 2 live ther lives free an wivout fear cos they gay, asian, black, hav blue eyes, blonde hair or ne thin else wich aint liked... but then..cud me support a party wich opposes all me ideals yet supports me as an individual 2 b mesel?? Don think me cud do that eitha.. jeez.. wudn haff b lost... as me says..interestin dichotomy an 1 wich tf me don yet hav 2 face an hopefully neva shall...

An yet best me an make out..woteva me dus..in 1 way or otha..me wud b that tukey an bein well gobbled up by Christmas...

[MetaSexual2]

I know american politics only from what I see on TV or read in the press. However it seems to me that a vote for McCain by bisexual people is like turkeys voting for Christmas.

:) its even worse than that Sammie. As you point out, its an obvious vote an equal rights issues., but its also been pointed out by a few different observers that many people in the US vote against their own economic and social self interests in the US because of artificial ideologies.

Fran - I've been over here in the UK a few years and the politics here is really murky, but maybe in a good way. At least in the US there is one party that is obviously wrong on almost every single issue :bigrin: Cameron is a twit, but I appreciate the "loyal opposition" role the Tories are playing right now. I would still never vote for them because of the entrenched racism and classism that still seems to be so obvious in their politics. I think NuLab and poor old Brown just don't know what to do with themselves right now in term of direction. I deeply appreciate what they have done in terms of equal rights, but I'm really concerned about the "security state" they seem to be building here and while I have come to appreciate the "societal safety net" much more since being in the UK, they still have a long way to go in streamlining the bureacracy. I often wonder why the LibDems aren't making a stronger grab for the spotlight given the lack of leadership from the other two. There seems to be a general sense of paralysis about the politics here now.

[darkeyes]

:) its even worse than that Sammie. As you point out, its an obvious vote an equal rights issues., but its also been pointed out by a few different observers that many people in the US vote against their own economic and social self interests in the US because of artificial ideologies.

Fran - I've been over here in the UK a few years and the politics here is really murky, but maybe in a good way. At least in the US there is one party that is obviously wrong on almost every single issue :bigrin: Cameron is a twit, but I appreciate the "loyal opposition" role the Tories are playing right now. I would still never vote for them because of the entrenched racism and classism that still seems to be so obvious in their politics. I think NuLab and poor old Brown just don't know what to do with themselves right now in term of direction. I deeply appreciate what they have done in terms of equal rights, but I'm really concerned about the "security state" they seem to be building here and while I have come to appreciate the "societal safety net" much more since being in the UK, they still have a long way to go in streamlining the bureacracy. I often wonder why the LibDems aren't making a stronger grab for the spotlight given the lack of leadership from the other two. There seems to be a general sense of paralysis about the politics here now.

Don expect me 2 take issue wiv a word yas sed hun... cept 1 thing.. politics ere is murky..lets jus leave it at that!:tong:

The actions a the govt in buildin as u say ther "security state" is 1 a the principal reasons me havin so much difficulty bout remainin the the party. Labout Govts an the Labour party r 2 seperate beasts an the party has no reel sway ova the leadership wen Labour is in office. An 2 a degree thats how it shud b... govts r elected by the nation as a whole not the party..yet the party stood on a manisfesto substantially decided by the membership a the party in 1 form or otha, an so the general direction the govt takes shud reflect the party wivout wich it cud neva hav been elected in the 1st place. Me knows reality intervenes an govt an opposition 2 very diff things an govts hav 2 act given the circumstances in wich they find themselves... yet they shud act as best they can within the ideology, philosophy an as best they can, the policies upon wich they wer elected.

The present govt, more than ne Labour govt in the past shows contempt for its roots, its membership an its integrity. Blair is more 2 blame for this than Brown, but Brown has been overwhelmed by the whirlwind a world slow down an yas rite..don seem 2 hav a clue wots hit im.

The Labour Party is, or was a socialist party commited 2 democratic change. Joined wen me wos a teenager an me whole family is steeped in it. Now it has itsel, cosa the actions a Blair an 'is cohorts since John Smith died, changed beyond recognition an is no longa the party wich me wos raised in an has luffed alla me life. Like many, me has fought 2 retain its historical commitment, yet Blair, an othas, an Brown 2 sum degree hav the ascendancy so much am now hav grave doubt wetha that party can remain true 2 itsel an its historical idealism certainly not now, or at ne time in the future..

So me feels like a stranger in me own home so 2 speak an for the reasons me has outlined, am seriously thinkin packin me bags an findin sumwer else 2 live.. prob is.. am not sure me not gonna end up homeless... cud neva vote lib/dem, neva eva Tory for reasons u outline an for otha more deep rooted 1s, the SSP r arseholes an am not a nationalist.. so me thinks, it mite well b sleepin in the political streets for me..

[TaylorMade]

Taylor - the Obama flip on gay marriage is a step in the right direction and he has made significant overtures to the gay community and has spoken frankly to the black commuity about predjudice. See the Ebezener Church Speech on 20 Jan for a good example. Politicians should be commended for policy shifts made after serious consideration of issues, as opposed to policy shifts based on poll-following. His flips on the telecomms immunity bill and offshore drilling are more troubling, but he is still by far the better leader in direct comparison with McCain.

Under a McCain administration you would likely see one or more additional ideologue Supreme Court Justices, further erosion of civil rights, a completely incoherent economic policy, a belligerent foreign policy, and continued pandering to Big Oil and the idiot wing of the Republican party. Over the last few years McCain sold his soul to the Bush administration and to the InsanoChristian movement (Taylor - don't take this as a slight against Christian's in general - its just seems the evangelicals in the US have gone completely mad, and no longer reflect what are ostensibly Christian values). Furthermore, I think it is a very strong possibility McCain has early stage dementia. I don't believe McCain has any chance of being an effective executive, whereas Obama very well could.

I'm a centrist voter and have voted Libertarian, Democrat, and Republican in the past (btw - Hubby - American, Wife - Brit) but I don't think I will be voting for a Republican for a very long time given the level of corruption and utter lack of competence the Republican party has displayed over the last 16 years. The Democrats are only marginally better, but they apparently still at least sometimes realize the difference between reality and fiction and give lip service to ethical principles. I'm just hoping that if the Republicans receive a big enough ass kicking this fall that principled conservatism will somehow reappear. It is really sickening to see the moronic talking points here and in the US media that attempt to pass as poitical discourse. The US needs to get its shit together, NOW, for its own sake and the sake of the free world - a resurgent Russia and China make this more crtical than ever.

Obama may make those signs on the trail, but remember, Clinton did too. . .and what did we get? Hence why I'm not putting any weight behind his actions. He may have made the speech, but it will take more than a really nice talk to change hundreds of years of an attitude in the black community.

InsanoChristian, nice nickname... you had a point w/o it. How am I supposed to take to that and at the same time, believe you really didn't mean offense?

It's like one of my lesbian friends calling bisexuals whores, then telling me not to take offense.

And Lip Service?That's not enough of a margin for me.

I may just write in Bob Barr and be done with it.

*Taylor*

[warmpuppy]

Jamie, can you name one other politician in the US right now that has the same level of oratory skills as Obama? I'm a politics junkie and I cant think of one other politician on the national (or international for that matter) stage who generates the kind of excitement that Obama does. The man has some serious charisma and has an uncommon level of intelligence (for politicians). Whether you like his policy or not, you still have to admire his considerable political skills to put himself into the position he is now. No matter what colour his skin was he would still be a major player, especially given the general environment of incompetence that exists in US politics right now.


Without a teleprompter, his IQ drops about 20 points. Oratory skill is an inappropriate qualification criterion for POTUS.

[TaylorMade]

Without a teleprompter, his IQ drops about 20 points. Oratory skill is an inappropriate qualification criterion for POTUS.

Based on some of what I've read, we wouldn't have elected Abraham Lincoln if we actually heard him speak. He was a tall, ungainly, manic-depressive with a high pitched, uneven voice. Doesn't "sound" electable to me.

*Taylor*

[MetaSexual2]

Without a teleprompter, his IQ drops about 20 points. Oratory skill is an inappropriate qualification criterion for POTUS.

Oratory is a necessary, but not alone sufficient requirement. It is however a strong indicator of social intelligence. Your statement about IQ has no basis in fact, and is another example of the moronic talking points I mentioned above. I say this with all sincerity - please stop using them and think for yourself. Engage in a discussion on the candidates actions and policy and not emotional labeling and meaningless statements. If you compare the candidates on a head-to-head basis on interviews I think you would have a hard time coming up with McCain as the more intelligent. Based on policy alone, I am not a huge Obama fan, but when you look at the alternative option I can not see how anyone can possibly rationally choose it. Convice me otherwise...

[MetaSexual2]

Obama may make those signs on the trail, but remember, Clinton did too. . .and what did we get? Hence why I'm not putting any weight behind his actions. He may have made the speech, but it will take more than a really nice talk to change hundreds of years of an attitude in the black community.

InsanoChristian, nice nickname... you had a point w/o it. How am I supposed to take to that and at the same time, believe you really didn't mean offense?

It's like one of my lesbian friends calling bisexuals whores, then telling me not to take offense.

And Lip Service?That's not enough of a margin for me.

I may just write in Bob Barr and be done with it.

*Taylor*

The opposition is actively trying to eliminate equal rights protections. At least with the Dems in power things won't likely backslide.

I really didn't mean to offend, and I really don't like name calling politics. So, my apologies. I know this is a hot button for you based on other posts of yours. I really don't have a problem with Christianity in general, its just this virulent strain that seems to have arisen in the US which appears to me to actually have anti-Christian values combined with a will to implement them on the rest of the US population.

Bob Barr? Really Taylor? A man who has been overtly racist and a strong supporter of Jese Helms?

[TaylorMade]

The opposition is actively trying to eliminate equal rights protections. At least with the Dems in power things won't likely backslide.

I really didn't mean to offend, and I really don't like name calling politics. So, my apologies. I know this is a hot button for you based on other posts of yours. I really don't have a problem with Christianity in general, its just this virulent strain that seems to have arisen in the US which appears to me to actually have anti-Christian values combined with a will to implement them on the rest of the US population.

Bob Barr? Really Taylor? A man who has been overtly racist and a strong supporter of Jese Helms?

Won't likely. . .might possibly. . . I'd rather not be deceived by hope.

Okay - - thanks for understanding. . .

I'll do my own investigations on Barr, since the charge of racism can be pretty cheaply thrown around, as this thread has shown. Jesse Helms had James Meridith, one of the first black people admitted to Ole Miss on his staff... I don't think a racist would have had an icon of integration on his payroll. But that's just me.

*Taylor*