California same-sex marriage

[BBMfan08]

Earlier this year a judge declared unconstitutional the state's prohibition against same-sex marriage. Beginning June 17th, gays and lesbians began marrying (including George Takei and Brad Altman, mentioned in another thread).

However, a new proposition (Proposition 8) has been placed on the ballot for the November election which would amend the California constitution to prohibit same-sex marriages.

I urge all California members of Bisexual.com to stand with our gay/lesbian brothers/sisters and vote NO on Proposition 8. If this proposition passes, all same-sex marriages to date would be annulled.

[darkeyes]

Betta make sure yas all vote me lufflies.... less'n a course ya don like same sex marriage 2 much..in that case.. stay at ome willya...:tong:

Seriously tho...fingies x'd an gud luk kissies...xoxoxoxox;)

[12voltman59]

I do hope that Californians defeat this measure----because if the California same sex marriage law prevails-it will be most helpful in breaking down the blocks against same-sex marriage in the other states.

I hope that in the marketing of the effort against the Prop----same sex marriage is not allowed to be painted as being "special rights for gays" but simply as the natural extension of the full panoply of rights that ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS that they have an expectation of receiving-----those who try to limit "gay" rights always portray these efforts by GLBT people as trying to get "special rights"---which is BS--it is merely an attempt to attain full citizenship rights for a significant portion of the population.

[shameless agitator]

Well said, Volty. That's actually why Lamda Legal has advised advocates to not even refer to it as same sex marriage. That sounds like some kind of modification of marriage. We refer to marriage equality or marriage rights for same sex couples. Never underestimate the power of linguistics

[turtle2]

I am probably the only one on this website this is voting YES on this. Regardless of the issue, I do not like judicial activism. The community lost on this issue at this point in time but couldn’t take the loss(prop 22 in 2000) so they cheated and got it thrown out through a law suit. Out of 8 states with laws challenged in the courts, MA and CA where the only two that found defining marriage as unconstitutional.

If we want same sex marriage to be real we need to go through the process and put it on the ballot and vote for it. That initiative would also need to have clear cut limits to avoid slippery slope type issues that are now currently wide open.

The problem with the community is that we often want to force issues. The doctor that lost the case a couple of weeks ago that didn’t want to artificially inseminate do to religious reasons. He simply referred them to another doctor, the couple aggressively sued and won. The photographer that didn’t want to shoot a same sex couple wedding, the pastor who is open to the public who didn’t want to perform the wedding. CA has already declared that anti discrimination trumps religious freedom.

CA by law would be required to change sex education and curriculum for k through 12. The King and King story in MA really woke me up to the mind set of how the state trumps parents rights.

Anyway I am sure this post isn’t going to be popular, but I wanted to through my two cents in and remind people that when the process is cheated the domino consequences are real.

[darkeyes]

Ther r domino consequences 2 every decision large an small.. question is not wot summat costs..wot the consequences r an wetha sum peeps..sumtimes even the majority, has ther noses put outa joint..the question is wetha summat is rite an just...

[Bluebiyou]

...listening to turtle2...
...yeah... similarly related...
one must be so incredibly careful not to open unintended doors in law.
Even though my feelings for some members of same sex (same age) is very strong... there is one who'd I marry in a heartbeat if circumstances were different...

A sweeping 'regardless of sexual orientation' overture in law...
...is soooo dangerous...
what about children, child porn, beastiality... and God knows what else...

Let us not be so anxious for our achievement, through law, open a portal for ... unintended evil.

You know, I pity... on a human level... those poor bastards whose sexual orientation is... immature humans. For the realization of their 'sexual orientation' is clearly unethical, antisocial, illegal, and probably evil (in the realization)...

No matter how much... no matter how legitimate... our needs and rights are for marriage and love...
we must be careful... to not open doors to do harm for exploiting others.
Gay marriage must be carefully worded... and carefully considered.

On the other hand, Hell Yeah! If two consenting grown men or grown women want to marry, why not? I can't see a moral reason not... or hell... more... two men and a women... two women and a man... perhaps beyond... blows my mind...

(and with a moment's progression of thoughts...)

It give me pause and profound respect for the single man most responsible for the worlds' freedoms, Thomas Jefferson... who had such wisdom, insight, and foresight...
Thank you God, for giving/allowing Thomas Jefferson at the right place and time.

[BBMfan08]

turtle2 writes:
"If we want same sex marriage to be real we need to go through the process and put it on the ballot and vote for it."

The other side obviously beat us to it, so there is no choice but to fight it. If Proposition 8 passes, it will amend the California state constitution to forever ban same-sex marriages.

I can't believe that, as a bisexual, you really want that.

__________________________________

If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it. :(

[darkeyes]

It give me pause and profound respect for the single man most responsible for the worlds' freedoms, Thomas Jefferson... who had such wisdom, insight, and foresight...


.... an slaves....

[darkeyes]

turtle2 writes:
"If we want same sex marriage to be real we need to go through the process and put it on the ballot and vote for it."

The other side obviously beat us to it, so there is no choice but to fight it. If Proposition 8 passes, it will amend the California state constitution to forever ban same-sex marriages.

I can't believe that, as a bisexual, you really want that.

__________________________________

If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it. :(Turtles thinkin jus a lil confused... ther r things always worth fitin for..an sumtimes..as parta that process..ther r things wich r worth fitin gainst...

[Bluebiyou]

.... an slaves....

OUCH!!!

Ironic but true... that the writer of "all men are created equal", owned many slaves over his lifetime. Some find it baffling that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves yet was outspoken in saying that slavery was immoral and it should be abolished... and then of course there was the Sally Hemings contradiction.

Drat! Whatever happened to the days of absolute good and evil? With no infinite set of levels in between?

[turtle2]

turtle2 writes:
"If we want same sex marriage to be real we need to go through the process and put it on the ballot and vote for it."

The other side obviously beat us to it, so there is no choice but to fight it. If Proposition 8 passes, it will amend the California state constitution to forever ban same-sex marriages.

I can't believe that, as a bisexual, you really want that.

__________________________________

If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it. :(

This is simply false. There is nothing forever. Ever hear of prohibition. The process is the process and should be followed. In years to come if the people wish it and ballot measure can be placed to repeal or amend the current definition of marriage regardless of prop 8's outcome.

At this point its not a love whom i wish and marry who i wish issue. My point is that by not going to the proper process nothing is defined. In addition to that CA has ruled in two court cases already that anti discrimination trump religious freedom(one of the main reasons so many people moved from England and France to America). In these two cases a photographer and a physician where forced to do things that are against their understanding of religion.(OK they where fined)….my other point is that this would already be legal if gay couples would stop filing lawsuits to force people to do things they don’t want to do.

[BBMfan08]

turtle2:

Yes, I've obviously heard of prohibition, but I think it's much more difficult to repeal an amendment than it is to get one passed. You're obviously free to vote anyway you choose on this proposition, but I can only hope the the rest of the Californians in this forum are not swayed by your legalistic arguments.

Why not vote 'NO' and give gays/lesbians the opportunity to pass their own constitutional amendment in the future permitting them equality under the law (which is what this all boils down to)? This proposition is patently discriminatory against gays/lesbians (and bisexuals who want to marry a same-sex partner). Passage will make them the only minority still being legally discriminated against.

__________________________________

If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it. :(

[turtle2]

turtle2:

Yes, I've obviously heard of prohibition, but I think it's much more difficult to repeal an amendment than it is to get one passed. You're obviously free to vote anyway you choose on this proposition, but I can only hope the the rest of the Californians in this forum are not swayed by your legalistic arguments.

Why not vote 'NO' and give gays/lesbians the opportunity to pass their own constitutional amendment in the future permitting them equality under the law (which is what this all boils down to)? This proposition is patently discriminatory against gays/lesbians (and bisexuals who want to marry a same-sex partner). Passage will make them the only minority still being legally discriminated against.

__________________________________

If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it. :(

LOL....so what your saying is you lost this debate. Clearly you can't argue against anything that i posted so your idea is to throw logic out the window and vote because it just feels right?