So how did it all get here?

[AdamKadmon43]

The Universe consists of matter and energy, matter simply being a concentrated form of energy. Matter and energy both generate gravity whose energy is negative.

Cosmologists are able to calculate the total mass-energy of the visible Universe by adding up the 73% dark matter, the 23% dark energy and the 4% atomic matter, photos and neutrinos in the sphere of 13.7 year radius which is the current size of the visible Universe. It totals up to a mass-equilavent of 10 to the 53rd power kilograms. An un-imaginably huge number. Equivalent to about 10 to the 11th power galaxies.

The total gravitational energy can also be calculated, and amazingly enough, it totals up to be a mass-equilavent of negative 10 to the 53 power kilograms!!!

The total energy of the Universe sums to zero !!!

If this is true, and thus far, Cosmologists do not dispute it, then the entire Universe came from nothing. It is just huge amounts of positive mass-energy held together by equal amounts of negative gravitational energy thus eliminating the necessity for some god to have created all this mess.

It becomes unnecessary to have a super-natural creator god that exists beyond or outside of the natural world, and the sum totality of mass and energy in the Universe can itself be thought of as God.

But what would I know about it?...... I am "small-minded".

[rissababynta]

Oh yeah, well....I have boobs so there.:tongue:

[Hephaestion]

Love it Rissa... puts the entire thing into perspective!

No offense Adam. Will you accept a token "how fascinating" ?

[Mr. Magick]

The Universe consists of matter and energy, matter simply being a concentrated form of energy. Matter and energy both generate gravity whose energy is negative.

Cosmologists are able to calculate the total mass-energy of the visible Universe by adding up the 73% dark matter, the 23% dark energy and the 4% atomic matter, photos and neutrinos in the sphere of 13.7 year radius which is the current size of the visible Universe. It totals up to a mass-equilavent of 10 to the 53rd power kilograms. An un-imaginably huge number. Equivalent to about 10 to the 11th power galaxies.

The total gravitational energy can also be calculated, and amazingly enough, it totals up to be a mass-equilavent of negative 10 to the 53 power kilograms!!!

The total energy of the Universe sums to zero !!!

If this is true, and thus far, Cosmologists do not dispute it, then the entire Universe came from nothing. It is just huge amounts of positive mass-energy held together by equal amounts of negative gravitational energy thus eliminating the necessity for some god to have created all this mess.

It becomes unnecessary to have a super-natural creator god that exists beyond or outside of the natural world, and the sum totality of mass and energy in the Universe can itself be thought of as God.

But what would I know about it?...... I am "small-minded".

I have often Pondered these things, minus the stats. As fasinating as the scientific explanation is it aways falls short. It aways leads one to question whether creationism is not the true answer. Nice post thx.

[AdamKadmon43]

Oh yeah, well....I have boobs so there.:tongue:

I am afraid that you shall need to prove that.......By showing them to me. :)

[rissababynta]

lmfao! You mean you can't see them?!

[BrotherJack]

The Universe consists of matter and energy, matter simply being a concentrated form of energy. Matter and energy both generate gravity whose energy is negative.

Cosmologists are able to calculate the total mass-energy of the visible Universe by adding up the 73% dark matter, the 23% dark energy and the 4% atomic matter, photos and neutrinos in the sphere of 13.7 year radius which is the current size of the visible Universe. It totals up to a mass-equilavent of 10 to the 53rd power kilograms. An un-imaginably huge number. Equivalent to about 10 to the 11th power galaxies.

The total gravitational energy can also be calculated, and amazingly enough, it totals up to be a mass-equilavent of negative 10 to the 53 power kilograms!!!

The total energy of the Universe sums to zero !!!

If this is true, and thus far, Cosmologists do not dispute it, then the entire Universe came from nothing. It is just huge amounts of positive mass-energy held together by equal amounts of negative gravitational energy thus eliminating the necessity for some god to have created all this mess.

It becomes unnecessary to have a super-natural creator god that exists beyond or outside of the natural world, and the sum totality of mass and energy in the Universe can itself be thought of as God.

But what would I know about it?...... I am "small-minded".

...:tongue::bigrin:Smiles.....I remember you telling me all this a few weeks ago....I still love to read it:bigrin:.....and you know what you always say....''all things are relative''......:);)

[BrotherJack]

I am afraid that you shall need to prove that.......By showing them to me. :)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........something I don't need to do.....eh what sexy?.........been there, been there.......ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!;):rolleyes:;):bi grin:

[BrotherJack]

Love it Rissa... puts the entire thing into perspective!

No offense Adam. Will you accept a token "how fascinating" ?

He He.......sure does.......Now, when he is really getting serious...he wags a finger at one...yes...just a finger....well.....yeah....mmm...he he;)

[AdamKadmon43]

For anyone who may be interested.... here is a link to Astronomer Dr. Mark Whittle's website.

http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~dmw8f/


It provides a most remarkable and incredibly fascinating view of the nature and history of our Universe. It is done in such a manner that even idiots like me can understand it.

And it is entertaining too.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Uhmmm, ok. BTW..I gots boobs too. Say hi to GodDot.com for me would ya?
Cat

[rissababynta]

Why yes Ma'am you most certainly do! :bigrin:

[jem_is_bi]

I love science so much!
So, facts like this set my mind off on an intelectual rush.
The insights I get give me such a kick.
But, sometimes I really like to have my mind work much less
During those times, I would rather play with boobs and dick.
Further, about all else I could care less.
How can this be wrong?
Since, such heavenly matter seems to add to nothing at all and eventuallly may be all gone.

[elastisexual]

but doesnt string theory suggest that matter is based on vibrating loop and non loop strings.And that gravity may be moving through other dimentions and therefor explain the weakness of gravity compared to the others in trying a unified theory.i know this does not really apply to what u said but through i would bring it up.
One thing that interests me it that all this is only verified by the data we have at the moment.when we find better tools to examine our universe it is reasonable to assume that we will have to re-evaluate our ideas.
So arent the ideas we have only as good as the data(and the tools) we have at the moment.
and as far as god goes isnt that a matter of faith and really not a matter of data or facts at all. The science just trys to explain what the universe is, and the faith trys to explain what the science cannot.

but in the end,for me at least,ther is a phrase that applies always.

the map is not the territory

[BrotherJack]

but doesnt string theory suggest that matter is based on vibrating loop and non loop strings.And that gravity may be moving through other dimentions and therefor explain the weakness of gravity compared to the others in trying a unified theory.i know this does not really apply to what u said but through i would bring it up.
One thing that interests me it that all this is only verified by the data we have at the moment.when we find better tools to examine our universe it is reasonable to assume that we will have to re-evaluate our ideas.
So arent the ideas we have only as good as the data(and the tools) we have at the moment.
and as far as god goes isnt that a matter of faith and really not a matter of data or facts at all. The science just trys to explain what the universe is, and the faith trys to explain what the science cannot.

but in the end,for me at least,ther is a phrase that applies always.

the map is not the territory

Oh!!!!!...I like this post!!! Just wondering what reply you'll get from the one and only, truly original.....primordial man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BrotherJack]

[QUOTE=elastisexual;122123]but doesnt string theory suggest that matter is based on vibrating loop and non loop strings.And that gravity may be moving through other dimentions and therefor explain the weakness of gravity compared to the others in trying a unified theory.i know this does not really apply to what u said but through i would bring it up.
One thing that interests me it that all this is only verified by the data we have at the moment.when we find better tools to examine our universe it is reasonable to assume that we will have to re-evaluate our ideas.
So arent the ideas we have only as good as the data(and the tools) we have at the moment.
and as far as god goes isnt that a matter of faith and really not a matter of data or facts at all. The science just trys to explain what the universe is, and the faith trys to explain what the science cannot.

but in the end,for me at least,ther is a phrase that applies always.

the map is not the territory[/QUOTE\]

Heck! I clicked submit...before this....:bigrin::bigrin::bigrin::bigrin::bigrin:

[AdamKadmon43]

So where is it all going? (My final comment before this unpopular thread slides its way down into the dark and dusty archives of this forum.)

All observational evidence suggests the the Universe has, for several billion years, been undergoing an accelerated expansion (or inflation if you will).

Cosmologists believe that in about 50 billion years, the Universe will have reached a state of maximum entropy. It will become a very cold, dark and incredibly thin universe. All molecular motion will have ceased and the current density of about 5 hydrogen nuclei per cubic meter of space will have been reduced to something so un-imagineably smaller as to be negligible. For all practical purposes, the Universe will have become very infinite and very dead.

BUT FEAR NOT !!!! All hope is not yet lost..... Please be advised that this is my own un-informed speculation and not anything based on current scientific theories.

While the universe in general seems to be expanding on a regional level, galaxies in said universe seem to be collapsing on a local level. Many galaxies appear to be collapsing in upon themselves from the mutual gravitational effects of their galactic material. Black Holes have formed at the center of these galaxies and appear to be slowly consuming them. If these Black Holes eventually collapse into Singularities, then perhaps they will "Big Bang" themselves into new universes. And we will have a multiplicity of new baby universes within the old dying universe.

Under such conditions, there will be even less need for a creator god. Things will have gotten out of his control and have confused him terribly.

But, no doubt, in these new worlds there will evolve new intelligent life forms who will pompously and arrogantly strut across the stage of existence proclaiming themselves to be something speacial in the eye of creation, and imagining themselves to be eternal.

I probably better go have another drink and go to bed. I have no idea what I am talking about and it is giving me a headache.

[AdamKadmon43]

but doesnt string theory suggest that matter is based on vibrating loop and non loop strings.And that gravity may be moving through other dimentions and therefor explain the weakness of gravity compared to the others in trying a unified theory.

I just recently finished watching a series of 24 half hour lectures on SuperString Theory for non-physicists and I did not understand a damned bit of it.


One thing that interests me it that all this is only verified by the data we have at the moment.when we find better tools to examine our universe it is reasonable to assume that we will have to re-evaluate our ideas.


You can absolutely count on it.


and as far as god goes isnt that a matter of faith and really not a matter of data or facts at all. The science just trys to explain what the universe is, and the faith trys to explain what the science cannot.

Of course it is a matter of faith. There is no empirical evidence to support either the existence or non-existence of god. My personal belief is that there is no supernatural god that exists beyond or outside of the natural world, but that the Universe its self is God. And that the Cosmos is Divine and all of nature is Sacred.

But in any event, it would seem to me that anyone who believes in a personal creator god that is directly involved in the affairs of humans has a rather incredibly simplistic and geo-centric view of what appears to be an unimaginably vast and complex universe.



but in the end,for me at least,ther is a phrase that applies always.
the map is not the territory

Thank you for your input.

[AdamKadmon43]

Why yes Ma'am you most certainly do! :bigrin:

She does indeed.....

Reminds me of a song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOk9RhBOln8

[BrotherJack]

She does indeed.....

Reminds me of a song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOk9RhBOln8

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.......they play that song...and the others the poor guy sings, every night, in the sex room you visit. I don't think they have any new music:bigrin: It must be even more funny if they play it when Wyomabelle decide to flash het breasts....or Southernbell....the one with the frightening picture on her profile....bounces her bra up and down......not a pretty sight.....I reckon the artistic burlesque....oh gawd that's funny...of Jazzle could send those men who are sexually deprived or salivating, to sleep.....what is so erotic about the woman coming up to the cam.....opening her mouth...and sticking that great long finger nail in it? 62 and a stripper....and such a butt ugly one........still...out of nothing...comes nothing.....and the universe is still expanding...or is it? Tell you what though.....she must have had all you Jazzle voyeurs, rock hard that night.....none of you were posting in public.......Woo Hoo.....Paid by the playing of a song.......and the universe implodes.......and disappears up it's own ass.:eek::eek::eek:

[BrotherJack]

So where is it all going? (My final comment before this unpopular thread slides its way down into the dark and dusty archives of this forum.)

All observational evidence suggests the the Universe has, for several billion years, been undergoing an accelerated expansion (or inflation if you will).

Cosmologists believe that in about 50 billion years, the Universe will have reached a state of maximum entropy. It will become a very cold, dark and incredibly thin universe. All molecular motion will have ceased and the current density of about 5 hydrogen nuclei per cubic meter of space will have been reduced to something so un-imagineably smaller as to be negligible. For all practical purposes, the Universe will have become very infinite and very dead.

BUT FEAR NOT !!!! All hope is not yet lost..... Please be advised that this is my own un-informed speculation and not anything based on current scientific theories.

While the universe in general seems to be expanding on a regional level, galaxies in said universe seem to be collapsing on a local level. Many galaxies appear to be collapsing in upon themselves from the mutual gravitational effects of their galactic material. Black Holes have formed at the center of these galaxies and appear to be slowly consuming them. If these Black Holes eventually collapse into Singularities, then perhaps they will "Big Bang" themselves into new universes. And we will have a multiplicity of new baby universes within the old dying universe.

Under such conditions, there will be even less need for a creator god. Things will have gotten out of his control and have confused him terribly.

But, no doubt, in these new worlds there will evolve new intelligent life forms who will pompously and arrogantly strut across the stage of existence proclaiming themselves to be something speacial in the eye of creation, and imagining themselves to be eternal.

I probably better go have another drink and go to bed. I have no idea what I am talking about and it is giving me a headache.

I always find you fascinating. You do understand what you are talking about and that has been the joy of not only reading your words, but also watching and listening to you speak, with such great passion, upon these subjects.

You get carried away...admittedly....too much sometimes.....but it has been a glorious experience, seeing someone so absolutely taken with a subject and showing the enthusiasm you do.

You are quite brilliant, you have an amazing intellect. Thank you for allowing me to encounter it. I'll always remember it. What heights you could reach, if the amber liquid was ditched. You're brilliant Adam....you really are...and your prose oushines mine...any time!!;)

[BrotherJack]

So where is it all going? (My final comment before this unpopular thread slides its way down into the dark and dusty archives of this forum.)

All observational evidence suggests the the Universe has, for several billion years, been undergoing an accelerated expansion (or inflation if you will).

Cosmologists believe that in about 50 billion years, the Universe will have reached a state of maximum entropy. It will become a very cold, dark and incredibly thin universe. All molecular motion will have ceased and the current density of about 5 hydrogen nuclei per cubic meter of space will have been reduced to something so un-imagineably smaller as to be negligible. For all practical purposes, the Universe will have become very infinite and very dead.

BUT FEAR NOT !!!! All hope is not yet lost..... Please be advised that this is my own un-informed speculation and not anything based on current scientific theories.

While the universe in general seems to be expanding on a regional level, galaxies in said universe seem to be collapsing on a local level. Many galaxies appear to be collapsing in upon themselves from the mutual gravitational effects of their galactic material. Black Holes have formed at the center of these galaxies and appear to be slowly consuming them. If these Black Holes eventually collapse into Singularities, then perhaps they will "Big Bang" themselves into new universes. And we will have a multiplicity of new baby universes within the old dying universe.

Under such conditions, there will be even less need for a creator god. Things will have gotten out of his control and have confused him terribly.

But, no doubt, in these new worlds there will evolve new intelligent life forms who will pompously and arrogantly strut across the stage of existence proclaiming themselves to be something speacial in the eye of creation, and imagining themselves to be eternal.

I probably better go have another drink and go to bed. I have no idea what I am talking about and it is giving me a headache.

oushines + outshines

[BrotherJack]

I just recently finished watching a series of 24 half hour lectures on SuperString Theory for non-physicists and I did not understand a damned bit of it.

Oh, don't believe you, you understand such things very well....that's why you are so passionate about the subjects you study.

You can absolutely count on it.



Of course it is a matter of faith. There is no empirical evidence to support either the existence or non-existence of god. My personal belief is that there is no supernatural god that exists beyond or outside of the natural world, but that the Universe its self is God. And that the Cosmos is Divine and all of nature is Sacred.

You're right....in a way....the Cosmos is Divine and all of nature sacred That includes all human life...each individual, whether good or bad....and if we hold all that is contained within the universe to be sacred, then we should also, hold sacred our own self......for the vital spark.....which is that cosmc energy...is found within each of us and in everything else and joins everything in this universe and makes it one...makes it whole.

But in any event, it would seem to me that anyone who believes in a personal creator god that is directly involved in the affairs of humans has a rather incredibly simplistic and geo-centric view of what appears to be an unimaginably vast and complex universe.

You have gone beyond ''a personal creator god'' and should just leave those thoughts to those people who wish to have them, yet still retaining an ability to converse upon such matters and in a civilised and polite manner.

Reaching a spiritual peace with oneself, the world, life, the universe....and all of this felt deep inside.....the very being of our psyche, is what is important.....this is what we should concentrate upon.

In reaching a higher spiritual awakening, we better ourselves. We should, by this bettering, be able to see how life should be led and always be reaching for the light, not giving in to the dark side. One should, by this process, learn how to love and cherish, not only others, but ones self.

Just think what could be achieved, if every single person upon this planet had the ability to put this spirituality, this love of the Cosmos, our planet and of all human beings, into practice. Think of the energy that would travel from human to human, what ever race, colour or creed they might be. The vital spark...growing to a flame.....if only.

Individuals can achieve this higher spiritual state. Keep working on it Adam. It's worth it, or it could be.



Thank you for your input.

And I thank you for your input and for your inspiration

[FalconAngel]

42!!!:bigrin::rotate:

[BrotherJack]

42!!!:bigrin::rotate:

Very good....smiles:bigrin:

[Northerncalifornia]

Facsinating information I think. Somes times when I ponder life, I wonder and question it like many others probably. Sometimes I think that when death comes, that there is nothing afterwards, but then I think maybe there might be something else. Like an continuing realm of realities that we continue in perhaps. I dunno, crazy talk I guess, but we do not know anything until it happens to us, and then when it does-and we "get an answer" we seem to cannot come back to tell anyone else. Who knows, but I am certainly interested.

[FalconAngel]

Very good....smiles:bigrin:

Well, the real problem is that no one really knows the right question.:tong::bigrin:

[BrotherJack]

Well, the real problem is that no one really knows the right question.:tong::bigrin:

Maybe......some of us don't need to ask! Maybe......some of us...just know!:angel:

[sterculius]

It has always been here. Neither energy nor matter can be created or destroyed. They can only be transformed. Everything that exists today has always existed and will always exist although in a different form. Under conditions of intense pressure and extremely high temperatures, as in a black hole or at the moment of the big bang(s), matter and energy are the same plasma. People who think that everything must have a beginning and an end and believe in a creator,can't explain what created the creator or have no problem believing that this creator always existed.

[MarieDelta]

As Monty Python so eloquently put it-


Whenever life get you down, Mrs. Brown
And things seem hard or tough
And people are stupid, obnoxious or daft
And you feel that you've had quite enu-hu-hu-huuuuff

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the 'Milky Way'.
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.

[BrotherJack]

It has always been here. Neither energy nor matter can be created or destroyed. They can only be transformed. Everything that exists today has always existed and will always exist although in a different form. Under conditions of intense pressure and extremely high temperatures, as in a black hole or at the moment of the big bang(s), matter and energy are the same plasma. People who think that everything must have a beginning and an end and believe in a creator,can't explain what created the creator or have no problem believing that this creator always existed.

''It has always been here.''

How long is always?.....and I am not disagreeing with you!......What made the ''always'' come in to existance.....and what caused this to explode and burst into life.....and what energy started that exploding and bursting into life....and on and on and on................

''Neither energy nor matter can be created or destroyed. They can only be transformed. Everything that exists today has always existed and will always exist although in a different form. Under conditions of intense pressure and extremely high temperatures, as in a black hole or at the moment of the big bang(s), matter and energy are the same plasma.''

Quite right!!

''People who think that everything must have a beginning and an end and believe in a creator,can't explain what created the creator or have no problem believing that this creator always existed.''

Ah.....but everything does have a beginning and an end....but in it's ending it becomes part of a new beginning and in it's beginning it, like the phoexix, rises from the ashes to be reborn in some other form of energy, eventually reaching another ending...and another beginning...............

Perhaps we have corrupted the true meaning of a creator and a creation, over the many milennia (sp), meaning that we have lost the true meaning of all that was understood by much earlier civilisations, than our own present day world houses.

Take away the word God, from the the first chapters of the book of Genesis and the words, written so many centuries ago, do not lose their power. As we should all be aware (and I wish the whole of humanity was), the religious and spiritual books of the world, were written for many different reasons, and were not meant to be taken, ''literally.''

Much of what is found within these early chapters of the Bible (and translation upon translation, has changed much of what was first written down on papyrus, after having been conveyed for a long time, by stories and discussions around the camp fire), is there to explain, to a simple and mostly illiterate nomadic people, where their place, in this world, fell.

Genesis gives a wonderfully simple explanation of how ''all came to pass,'' and I don't think anything I have read within those chapters, argues with a big bang theory....or evolution. A simple explanation....for uneducated people....

Of course other chapters go on to give wisdom and laws and all that is necessary when a hierarchy, needs to control the populous. Just because a God is used to be a univeral mothe/father, and one to be ''feared''......does not mean that there is a supreme deity.....It's all about control of the masses. Stories are told to keep the people quiet, in this, the 21st century, just as much as it must have come to pass, those thousands of years ago.

God.....or a Supreme deity, of any form, is not to blame for the ignorance of much of humankind........It is humankind itself which is the culprit. All power corrupts......absolute power corrupts.....absolutely!!! The words are not incorrect. What better way of keeping control, when one holds power, than by putting the fear of a God into the heart and mind and spirit of another human.

The energy which can never be destroyed, but changes and becomes part of another whole, is that vital spark, I speak of in a previous post. A spark, becoming a flame, dwindling to a flicker and then bursting into an inferno life
once more.

We are all God....everything in the universe is God.....it's a sentient lifeforce that grew, as the universe became more complex and intricate. If we take enough time, to sit quietly and reflect on the universe within each of us, then we can feel that lifeforce and feel how it is to be found everywhere and in every thing.