Gay Men Who Have Sex With Women

[fred fencesitter]

I've heard of this term (much like "lesbians who have sex with men"). By that, I don't mean closeted gay men who have sex with women to show that they are "straight." It seems to be used to describe gay-identified men who have sex with women every once in a while basically for the fun of it. Have you ever known anyone like this? How did they get with women? Why did they still identify as gay? This phenomenon interests me because when I identified as gay, I was still attracted to women occasionally, but felt that I "shouldn't" pursue them. Eventually, my attractions to women grew frequent enough that it felt absurd to consider myself gay.

But anyway, does anyone have any insight into this phenomenon? It does seem like many "fag hag" type women sleep with gay men from time to time.

[Indaco76]

I've heard the term more frequently for women (re: lesbians who have sex with men). Honestly, I thought about identifying this way for a long time, since on an emotional plane I'm much more drawn to women than I am to men. Eventually, it didn't make much sense to me. I've been in a monogamous relationship with a woman for two years and I haven't slept with anyone else, woman or man. But I still find guys hot and would, in theory, sleep with one if I were to be single again. Probably just for the fun of it, but it's still sex. And I call this bisexuality.
I don't know, I guess people who choose this label prefer to stick to the gay/lesbian identity out of loyalty to the community - or maybe to avoid the stress of coming out again with a new sexual identity.
Just my :2cents:

[fredtyg]

I think it's probably just one of those name games of people labeling others, or themselves. He wants to identify himself as homosexual, so he does. If he still likes to have a girl every now and again, I'd consider that bi, but it's what he thinks he is that counts.

[eddy10]

I agree with Indaco and Fred. Those folks fit my definition of Bi. Probably a 2 or 3 on our rating scale. But, again, it is just a label.

[Bi-Zarro]

It's just a phrase which attempts to get around the biphobia that one finds too often in the Gay Community (tm)(c). It's silly, really.

[cand86]

Pretty much what everyone else says.

I also think it's a factor of convenience and ease- that if women are a rarity for you and men are your main thing, it's a hell of a lot easier to just identify as gay and occasionally step outside of that identity, rather than shift everything to be bi.

[Randypan]

I had some moron on another site (http://bearforest.com) Say repeatedly (became such a pest I had to ban him) that if you are a man that has sex with men you are gay, period, end of conversation. This is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard, unfortunately that's not the only time I've heard it. What I find strange is that one idiotic statement seems to be a point of agreement between parts of the gay and straight communities. :confused:

[jeancarleo]

there's also guys that say they're gay and want to experiment sex with a girl to see if they like it or not. some of those guys that end up liking it don't tell their friends because they don't want to be rejected as it happens when you tell a gay person you're bi and they reject you just because they feel disgusted.

[littlerayofsunshine]

I have had sex with a gay man. No I am not a hag or fly. We were just really good friends. He was in the middle of masculine feminine acting. I don't know how exactly you would describe him. To me he was just my gay best friend mark. We were always honest with each other about our sexuality and yadda yadda yadda (seinfeld anyone?) we had sex... It was good and he was able to perform no problem. I asked him how he was able to do it, even want to do it, if he was gay and he told me that he was romantically attracted to men, physically attracted to men. But he just enjoyed sex and if it was with the right girl, he could enjoy sex easily and be turned on and maintain an erection. So there ya go. Some gay people like straight sex and even want it over and over again. But they are still gay and I don't care, cause he was a good guy and he sure felt damn good.

*bites lower lip*

[nocturnal08]

I have had sex with a gay man. No I am not a hag or fly. We were just really good friends. He was in the middle of masculine feminine acting. I don't know how exactly you would describe him. To me he was just my gay best friend mark. We were always honest with each other about our sexuality and yadda yadda yadda (seinfeld anyone?) we had sex... It was good and he was able to perform no problem. I asked him how he was able to do it, even want to do it, if he was gay and he told me that he was romantically attracted to men, physically attracted to men. But he just enjoyed sex and if it was with the right girl, he could enjoy sex easily and be turned on and maintain an erection. So there ya go. Some gay people like straight sex and even want it over and over again. But they are still gay and I don't care, cause he was a good guy and he sure felt damn good.

*bites lower lip*i like that in u , im a bisexual male that means to those that feel just because i like having sex with men that im just gay thats why we call it "bisexual" every now and then a gay man might want to switch it up and thats they perrogative they know who they are and what they are and theres no need for anyone to tell them(believe this @#%T) judgement of others for what they do or dont do might leave your glass house in shambles. last place to think you would find an Elitest would be in this community. just my thoughts about the subject

[fred fencesitter]

sounds like littleray and her gay buddy had a good time. nothing wrong with that.

[badgrrl448]

I hate to prolong what may ultimately be a fruitless discussion in terms of results, but perhaps we need to stop thrusting our own labels onto other people, and accept the labels they adopt for themselves. It's not up to us to tell each other what he/she/they are; we should respect each other's choices in whatever realm they fall, identity included. If you identify as gay, super; how does that work for YOU? If you're bi, fantastic; what does that mean FOR YOU?? Let's not be all self-righteous and wave the labeling wand willy-nilly...

[Alaskan Couple]

Fred- ...It's possible to go from thinking that you're gay to discovering that you are bisexual but it's not going to happen to me.

If they were really gay they would be like me...

With fag hags and fruit flies I'm glad that I never got into having those and gay bars used to be fun until all the queens and twinks started taking their straight fag hags and fruit flies there with them...

Gay bars are one of the few places there are less and less of where myself and other gay men can be ourselves, and seeing a bunch of straight women there as tourists is rather annoying...

... but isn't it selfish to go to a gay bar where you aren't welcome...

Or are the women just dumb and don't realize that they're not in an episode of Sex and The City and they're not welcome there?

Wow! I guess if someone ain't like you then they can't be gay! You obviously set the gold standard for all gay folk.

What a shame all those queens and twinks are making the old gay bars a thing of the past by inviting all their friends to them....Hmmmm, but if there aren't that many of the old type anymore, I wonder if maybe it's that old type of homo that's not a "real gay" anymore???? Dayum! All these terms and labels sure get hard to keep up with don't they? No matter though...there's still plenty of excuse to hate anyone not like ME!!!!


I don't buy that he's gay. He sounds like one of those men who are really bisexual who just think that they're gay.

If he's gay or homosexual what is he doing having sex with women?

Extolling heterosexual sex for homosexual men (not bi) degrades the uniqueness and dignity of homosexuality.

The ridiculous protest that "well it just happened that one time, it doesn't mean anything, it's not going to happen again" or the excuse of "I just like sex!" belies the fact if you really were gay and know this about yourself, it wouldn't have happened in the first place and to now assume that it would never happen again defies basic logic, and the guy is denying that he's at least sexually attracted to both genders since he may fall in love with only men and enjoy sex with men but he also has some sexual attraction to women.

I guess all those silly scientific studies that indicate that human sexuality is a fluid thing are just wrong?

[jeancarleo]

i can enjoy being at a gay club without flirting because i love to be on the dance floor 90% of the time. i don't get annoyed by "str8" people cuz if u think about it why would they be there if not cuz they're curious about their own sexual preferences. maybe those fag hags deep within feel attracted to girls but don't admit it. u just gotta be who u are and enjoy your life. no labels, just uniqueness. no one's the same.

[littlerayofsunshine]

Maybe my gay guy is bisexual, who knows how he labels himself now. We were both very young and in the deep south. We didn't know the term bisexual. I was 18 when this happened and he was in his young 20's. I never even heard the term bisexual till a couple years after I moved to NY, so maybe around the age of 23. So I went through most of my attractions to women with out ever having a name for it. Just feeling different from everyone else, isolated.....And to label me a "Fag Hag/Fruit Fly" because I once had sex with a guy who identified himself as gay, especially for me when it was something that happened 13 years ago, is just you being a small minded gay man. Its gays like you that put other people that identify as gay, but in different situations than you, in an even more claustrophobic closet than the one they came out of. Thank god you do not represent the whole gay community and that there are more understanding and well spoken gays that can accept differently sexual people and treat other people with more respect than you have shown me.

With your mentality about opposite sex-sex, means that the majority of gay men are really bi, because a lot of them have sex with women, and more than once. No matter how they justify it. No matter how much they reject it later on. You just can't unring a bell you already rung. You can't say one gay man who has sex with women is not gay, while you say that another gay man who has sex with women IS gay.


Luckily I am not as closed minded and allow people to be themselves and accept them as they are. And don't ever feel the need to belittle someone to tout a self righteous sexual agenda.

[Bi-Zarro]

Despite what you think Bi-Zarro not all or most gay men are biphobic or think that bisexuals don't exist at all or are rare, despite what you see in the media or opinion and entertainment columns.

That wasn't what I said. I didn't say "all" or "most."

[diB4u]

I've heard of this term (much like "lesbians who have sex with men"). By that, I don't mean closeted gay men who have sex with women to show that they are "straight." It seems to be used to describe gay-identified men who have sex with women every once in a while basically for the fun of it. Have you ever known anyone like this? How did they get with women? Why did they still identify as gay? This phenomenon interests me because when I identified as gay, I was still attracted to women occasionally, but felt that I "shouldn't" pursue them. Eventually, my attractions to women grew frequent enough that it felt absurd to consider myself gay.

But anyway, does anyone have any insight into this phenomenon? It does seem like many "fag hag" type women sleep with gay men from time to time.

Ooohhh be still my aching prostate... *if only* I would be honoured no privaleged if i had any private time with gay men... make my year. As a "fag hag" would love to. In my view everyone should do that, just for the fun of it lol.

Rock on!

[fred fencesitter]

I'm the one who started this thread, simply because I had read of the term, and was curious about why someone would identify as gay and still have sex with women on occasion -- for pleasure, apparently. There was a time when I thought of myself as a "gay man who was occasionally attracted to women." I felt I wasn't entitled to call myself bisexual since I had never had sex with a woman. Maybe I should have considered myself bisexual all along, since there was never a point where I wasn't attracted to women. But I didn't know anyone who was bi.


I can understand gay men who are in denial or not sure if they're gay having sex with women as I did this but guys who are adults and out as gay men do not want or have sex with women at all.

You would have to be a moron to believe that gay men who know that they are gay and aren't closeted gay men trying to be straight actually have sex with women.

The guys who call themselves gay yet claim that they have or want sex with a woman are really just bisexual men.

I had sex with a woman once as a teenager.

I had to think about men constantly in order to get hard, enjoy it, I could not cum, and I found her body and the sex we had to be disgusting.

When it comes to women there's just zero sexual attraction there at all and I've never had any sexual or romantic attraction to women.

Fag hags, fruit flies, and other women who somehow think that I or other gay men want sex with you. Have sex with straight or bisexual men since it's not going to happen with us gay men.



JeanCarlo-Just because you are bisexual does not mean that everyone is.

As annoying as fag hags and straight people are in gay bars and clubs just because they are intruding it does not mean that they're somehow not straight.

I know heterosexual men who work in gay bars as bouncers and bartenders and they are not closeted bisexual or gay men.

[Alaskan Couple]

This whole thing about how annoying it is for some "real gay men" to have to be in a bar with someone not gay (or not gay enough) makes me wonder...

If it's ok for such "gay men" to believe it's their "right" to discriminate against non-gays in this way, wouldn't it then be ok if non-gays protested about having gays in their bars? I can just hear it now; "How disgusting to have to sit with my girl and watch two fags making goo-goo eyes at each other."

Frankly, the one thing that gets my ire up quicker than anything are those odd ball people who scream the loudest about how everyone else should accept them as they are, but then turn quickly around and spew out their venom toward anyone who is different than them....just goes to show that there are narrow minded hypocrites of the highest order in all of the social classes. And regardless of whether they are straight anti-gay fundies or homosexual fundies, they are all intolerant toward anyone not like them.

From the tone of this conversation, it seems to me that bisexuals are the only sane group. The hardcore straights are disgusted and annoyed by anyone not like them, the hardcore gays are disgusted and annoyed by anyone not like them...and bi folk can love either straight or gay (provided they are lovable - wink wink).

[littlerayofsunshine]

Gay bars are a chance to escape from the straight world for just for a few hours.

I don't like seeing straights acting heterosexual in my bars since I don't go to their bars and talk and act like I do in bars where bisexual and gay men go.

The atmosphere of a gay bar is totally ruined by having straight people in gay bars.

I don't care if breeders don't want me in their bars since I have no interest in going to them since I can go to gay bars and be myself.

What's wrong with letting us queer/bisexual/gay men have our own space where straight men and women are not allowed at all?

Society hates us faggots and queer men and this just shows how heterosexual society does not want a space that is only for gay, bisexual, and queer men.

Diversity and politics be damned queer male spaces are a rarity and it is annoying how lots of heterosexuals think they can go to bars for queer men and invade and act like they are wanted there like they do everywhere else they go.



I don't like seeing straights acting heterosexual in my bars since I don't go to their bars and talk and act like I do in bars where bisexual and gay men go.

Straight acting heterosexuals. As opposed to gay acting heterosexuals?? How about hetero acting homosexuals, spreading their hetero acting around??? When you say "My Bars" Do you actually own any????? Cause if you did, you could make a it total gay bar, make it a members only bar and Viola no Straight acting people. IF you don't own one, too bad. Not many straight people go there because OOooo its a gay bar, they usually get invited by another gay patron of the bar be it a friend or family member, and the bartenders take the money and serve the liquor anyway. No bar is gonna turn down the money just because someone gets pissy in their pants, cause you can't pay the rent with pissy pants.

Women usually get invited by another gay person to go to a club or a bar, and women will normally accept such an invitation because in reality it is safer and there won't be anyone slipping them a drug and date raping them. Plus There are gay people that enjoy the company of straight people and want the straight people to be involved in their gay world and meet their gay friends and attend gay parades and see a drag show. So why don't you hate on the gays that enjoy straight people's friendship and bring the straight people into your world?



What's wrong with letting us queer/bisexual/gay men have our own space where straight men and women are not allowed at all?

You have that, its called your own home.

[fred fencesitter]

So, to sum up people's posts (and a few guesses of mine own):

Why would a man identify as gay despite having occasional sex with women:

1. Because the great majority of his attractions / sex partners are homosexual, and a bisexual identity would presume a certain parity.

2. Because he had assumed a gay identity, and assuming a bi identity would require a "second coming out."

3. Because he has a strong tie to the gay male community, and identifying as bisexual might jeopardize that. Perhaps his friends might disapprove.

4. Because he has negative views of the bisexual label, perhaps seeing it as "phony" or "sleazy." Perhaps he finds the idea of identifying as bisexual after identifying as gay to be too strange to accept.

5. Because his primary emotional ties are to other men. Perhaps he can have sex with a woman for fun, but wouldn't want a woman as a primary partner.

Does that cover it?

[Billys_gurl]

I hate these topics of conversation. SO many opinions and such cruelty in the results and responses.

As one of those dreaded "fag hags" I hate to tell it I never slept with any of the gay men I hung out with. Not ALL str8 women go to the bars to 'convert' their friends or some hot guy to the 'dark side' (being into girls). I went because my friend wanted me to go with him for moral support when he went the first few times. It ended up with him being hated and me making some of the best 'girlfriends' (my term) I have ever had. Now, in return for my support and love for them being who they were they are now suppporting me in my bisexuality that I always felt but never acted on until now. So, please, stop the hating. We are all human, and no matter the hatred I care for each of you because you are you. So, let the fall out bagin.

[Billys_gurl]

Women usually get invited by another gay person to go to a club or a bar, and women will normally accept such an invitation because in reality it is safer and there won't be anyone slipping them a drug and date raping them. Plus There are gay people that enjoy the company of straight people and want the straight people to be involved in their gay world and meet their gay friends and attend gay parades and see a drag show. So why don't you hate on the gays that enjoy straight people's friendship and bring the straight people into your world?


Thank you SO much for that hits the nail on the head for some women who go to the gay bars. I can go one better, when my husband and I started dating I took him to the bar and to my friends homes because THEIR opinion of him in my life and consequently theirs also was important to me. i told him if they didn't approve of him, I would have to think about our relationship more!

[Alaskan Couple]

...

What's wrong with letting us queer/bisexual/gay men have our own space where straight men and women are not allowed at all?


Diversity and politics be damned queer male spaces are a rarity and it is annoying how lots of heterosexuals think they can go to bars for queer men and invade and act like they are wanted there like they do everywhere else they go.

Duh! Hate to be the one to break the news to you man; but bisexual men by definition find the opposite sex attractive....we enjoy their company. It's only the tiny rare minority of radical gay men that hate all women and heterosexual men who need or want to isolate themselves. The vast majority of gay men enjoy their female/straight friends and invite them to their favorite clubs. Thus, the reason "queer male spaces" are such a rarity is because there is little or no interest in them nor is there a viable market for them.

[BiCycler]

I find a need to weigh in here. I'm not sure why because there has been a cyclic discourse here and I usually avoid cyclic arguments. Men who have sex with men and women are men who have sex with men and women. I'm in agreement with several posts here. The original post used the label "gay". To me, it's all semantics. Fry the labels, surf the spectrum that is humanity and most importantly rid the hate. I'm really tired of telling people what I am and just want to be me, be allowed to be me and be proud (not ashamed) to be me. Open up your hearts, we're all in this together. One other thought occurs to me. People have been killed or hurt because others find their sexuality offensive. Maybe we do need labels and thank you to the brave individuals that stand up to be seen and proclaim their pride about who they are. When we start to call others "fag hags" or "fruit flies" we reverse that trend and build more hate. Grow up, gentlemen, our societies need to evolve not devolve.

[littlerayofsunshine]

LittleRay-
Too often it is a group of 20 fat, ugly, loud, uneducated, trashy skanks that only come to a homo-hang because they want attention from gay boys. They claim that they just don't want to get hit on by straight guys - but come on sisters - look in the mirror. They obviously are not bothering you. You came to a gay bar hoping to become a hag for a night. To have a gay man listen to what you say just like in the movies. Good luck with that.

If I needed or God forbid wanted a fag hag, they would have to at least be attractive and smart. You are neither. So the next time you feel the need to charge into a gay bar and treat queer men like a spectacle and make drunken fools out of yourself please understand that none of us give a crap.


These women don't patronize these bars at any other time except with their twinky queen male friends You just solidified 3 responses with this statement. Don't get mad a the straight girls that go, get mad at the people who take them. Put it where it belongs.



You should celebrate the women who have straight sex, cause without straight sex, there would be no more gay/bisexual men.



I have never been to a gay bar or club. So everything you say referring to me is just a load of crap. To judge me on my looks and put down my intelligence just goes to show how bitter and uncivilized you are. And to your intelligence......Your response has lil to do with what I said. So since you are impossible to have a dialogue with and are just a flamer, I plan on not responding to this thread anymore. You sir, are dismissed :cool:

[onewhocares]

GayAZN,

I must take exception to some of your recent comments. They are derogatory and to stereotype those women who have gay friends as fag hags and fruit flies is unrealistic and naive. Speaking for myself, my friends are my friends for the persons they are and not their gender, race, sexual persuasion, education or the color of their pants which we all put on one leg at a time. To assume that women patrons who go to a typically “gay” bar as

“Too often it is a group of 20 fat, ugly, loud, uneducated, trashy skanks that only come to a homo-hang because they want attention from gay boys.”

and

“If I needed or God forbid wanted a fag hag, they would have to at least be attractive and smart. You are neither. So the next time you feel the need to charge into a gay bar and treat queer men like a spectacle and make drunken fools out of yourself please understand that none of us give a crap.”

is blatantly a ridiculous statement. In my many years of patronizing “gay bars” with my friends I have yet to meet someone who meets your description. I am tall, smart, attractive, 48, not loud and obnoxious and certainly not a drunken fool nor have I treated any person as a spectacle.

Perhaps things are different in the area in which you live, but I can say that in Boston and Providence (USA), people, ALL types of people go to a club to dance, sing, mingle, and have a nice enjoyable night out. I am straight yet I go and dance, sing and enjoy the company of those I am there with be they straight, gay, Trans, lesbian or cross dressing when I am invited. I am asked to dance by the other guest no matter their label. The idea of a totally private member’s only club which is specific to the “type” of person may be your best bet for a club of your choice. But from a business perspective I would think that the bottom line on that business would certainly be less profitable.

Belle

[y2kssei]

I hate to prolong what may ultimately be a fruitless discussion in terms of results, but perhaps we need to stop thrusting our own labels onto other people, and accept the labels they adopt for themselves. It's not up to us to tell each other what he/she/they are; we should respect each other's choices in whatever realm they fall, identity included. If you identify as gay, super; how does that work for YOU? If you're bi, fantastic; what does that mean FOR YOU?? Let's not be all self-righteous and wave the labeling wand willy-nilly...

I agree 100% Labels are only for people who feel the need to use them