UK apologises to Alan Turing

[MetaSexual2]

Prime minister Brown has issued an official apology for the treatment of Alan Turing by the British Government in the early 1950s. He was one of the fathers of modern computer science and artificial intelligence, and the primary mind behind the cracking of the German enigma codes during WWII. He also ranks as probably one of the top five intellectuals in terms of impact in 20th century. He was prosecuted under public indecency laws after admitting he was gay, forced to undergo chemical castration, and had his security clearances revoked. Two years (at 41) later he committed suicide, his career having been destroyed.

There is also currently a campaign here in the UK to have the Queen recognise his work with a Knighthood.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/gordon-brown/6170112/Gordon-Brown-Im-proud-to-say-sorry-to-a-real-war-hero.html

[Doggiestyle]

Yeah, and like that's going to do him any good. Sounds to me like the Gov't officals are trying to smooth over some sort of guilty conscience!! :disgust: But, in reality, it seems to me like there really just adding a insult to their injury! :( I wonder if they feel any better now?

Your friend, :doggie:

[MetaSexual2]

Doggie, I think you miss the point of campaigns like this. Acknowledgement of past errors on the part of governments, or any human organisation for that matter, makes it less likely that future bad behaviour by that organisation will take place. It serves as an object lesson in the repercussions of human stupidity, and something people can't point to when that organisation starts behaving badly again. In other words, it provides people leverage to say "Look what happened the last time you did this. Don't be stupid again or it will be bad for all of us".

Turing was one of the finest minds to ever exist in human history, he changed the entire world with his thoughts. He probably had another 20-30 years of intellectual achievement left in him. Realising what an incredible tragedy the destruction of minds like his are is important for the survival of human society in general.

This is incredibly relevant now, because bad behaviour very much like this is still happening on a daily basis. People who are very valuable resources to organisations are being turfed out simply because of their sexual orientation.

[Iron_Beanie]

I live near the street named after him in Manchester, and these narrow minded jerks make my blood boil.

[Hephaestion]

Metasexual, much as I think this is a good thing for Turing's name on a formal basis (we all know that he was treated abysmally at the time) I think that doggie has (a) point(s).

PM Brown's standing with the electorate is currently quite low through his many mistakes and deviousness. Once upon a time they used to roll out the Royals to kid us that all was well. However, the Royals have managed to lose the public confidence e.g. the Diana/Kamila saga and countless episodes of misbehaviour.

Turing seems awfully convenient at this moment. I wonder of the government and their spin doctors are not assuming that the LBGT communities are so simple minded that they will be mesmerized like chickens?

.

[MetaSexual2]

Heph - This wasn't Brown's idea, this campaign has been in operation for a few months in the UK and also has some very heavy support among the academic community here. He was pushed from below, but it doesn't hurt that he needs all the political capital he can get.

As to the political climate here, I do worry for the future. Haven't particularly liked what I've seen out of Labour since I emigrated, but the Tories turn my stomach worse. I don't think they would be doing any favours for the LBGT community if they are in power. I have hopes for the Lib dems over the long run, nationally they haven't been great, but locally here in Sussex they have been very effective.

[**Peg**]

.....People who are very valuable resources to organisations are being turfed out simply because of their sexual orientation.

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

I learned long ago to keep my mouth shut... made it to my mid-60's without incident. There's a practical lesson there.

I was raised in a time when ones' orientation was not declared. We never felt as if we were being "dishonest" by keeping our own counsel. In fact... that was the true meaning of "discretion".

Personally, I just don't understand why some people DO feel the need to shout it from the rooftops, especially when they put themselves in emotional, financial or employment jeopardy. To my mind that's drawing fire... play with fire: somebody's going to get burned.

I have some friends who declared their orientation because they needed others' approval of their lifestyle... I never did.... probably never will. But then, I'm a loner.

HOWEVER, I treat everyone with respect.... always have and always will.

:2cents:

[Hephaestion]

Meta - I accept all that you say about the more major UK political parties although I would point out that it is NEW Labour (AKA Conservative mimics denounced by the Labour traditionalists) that have been in power for some years, whereas the Turing campaign has appeared as you say in recent months; in truth the campaign has reappeared in recent months.

Now, anything that redresses a wrong is very welcome but I remain deeply sceptical of timing and the degree of government aquiesence in comparison to their previous intransigence and duplicity in the nationally supported Gurkha campaign which resulted in much self inflicted damage. Turing didn't have to be PM Brown's personal idea for him to have capitalised on it.

Yours (if you're really lucky)

Heph

PS
In the Gurkha campaign I became and remain the self appointed guardian of Joanna Lumley's left buttock - unashamedly I continue to look for additional other positions also.

[MetaSexual2]

Heph, This was all the work of one very motivated geek. The campaign didn't exist before him. I don't think anyone seriously thought to ask for an official apology before he did back in August. If you are interested You can read the whole story here...
http://www.jgc.org/blog/labels/alan%20turing.html

Peg - I find your take on what should be a moment to celebrate (and acknowledge the extreme mistreatment of) one of the greatest human minds to ever exist, very depressing.

[Hephaestion]

I am sure that in the last 50+ years only one person ever thought of the injustice done to Alan Turing and tried to get something done about it.

.

[MetaSexual2]

No reason to get sarcastic about it. There have been efforts locally in Manchester (the statue, the ring road, etc.), but I can't find any evidence people have seriously gone after the govt. or the general UK public in the last 20 years (in press records) or so with this sort of thing. He didn't have any direct descendants and I just don't think until recently anyone would have thought the govt. would have been responsive.

I'd actually be very curious if you know of any prior efforts to rehabilitate Turing's name as its sort of becoming a hobby of mine to follow the history of these types of campaign. Redressing of historical wrongs, shaping of public ethics, etc.

[coyotedude]

I won't pretend to know a great deal about the current UK political establishment, and it wouldn't be my business to comment on UK politics even if I did know.

But from this side of the pond, I was glad nonetheless to see the apology from the UK prime minister for how Alan Turing was treated back in the 50's.

Turing is the father of modern computing, and he played a key role in the ultimate victory during WWII. Can you imagine what other achievements he could have accomplished had he not been driven to suicide simply for who he was?

The story is both sad and sickening. And it's still happening today throughout the world. In that sense, this apology touches everyone, not just in the UK, regardless of the domestic politics that may or may not have driven it.

Peace

[Annika L]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

I learned long ago to keep my mouth shut... made it to my mid-60's without incident. There's a practical lesson there.

I was raised in a time when ones' orientation was not declared. We never felt as if we were being "dishonest" by keeping our own counsel. In fact... that was the true meaning of "discretion".

Personally, I just don't understand why some people DO feel the need to shout it from the rooftops, especially when they put themselves in emotional, financial or employment jeopardy. To my mind that's drawing fire... play with fire: somebody's going to get burned.

I have some friends who declared their orientation because they needed others' approval of their lifestyle... I never did.... probably never will. But then, I'm a loner.

HOWEVER, I treat everyone with respect.... always have and always will.

:2cents:

Thing is, Peg, straight people don't *have* to "shout" their orientation "from the rooftops". Especially when you were growing up, but even largely today, everyone *assumed/assumes* you are straight, so you get to live *your* identity just by living. So it's easy for you to say there's no need to speak out...you have the luxury and privilege of not understanding. To suggest that when straight people don't announce their straightness, they are "keeping their own counsel", and that openly bi/gay people have something to prove is to demonstrate serious ignorance of straight power and privilege.

I do not need the approval of others for my "lifestyle". But I should have the same freedom to express my love for my partner as a straight person has to express their love for theirs. By engaging in that expression, we do not look for trouble or "draw fire". We're just living our lives. Funny how straight people don't have to be discreet...they can wear a wedding ring on their finger and "shout from the rooftops" that they have a hetero partner...but when we do that, or seek similar rights, we're drawing fire.

In Alan Turing's case, it was even more sad. Wikipedia is not the most reliable source in the world, but I have no reason to doubt their account:

"In January 1952 Turing picked up 19-year-old Arnold Murray outside a cinema in Manchester. After a lunch date, Turing invited Murray to spend the weekend with him at his house, an invitation which Murray accepted although he did not show up. The pair met again in Manchester the following Monday, when Murray agreed to accompany Turing to the latter's house. A few weeks later Murray visited Turing's house again, and apparently spent the night there.

After Murray helped an accomplice to break into his house, Turing reported the crime to the police. During the investigation Turing acknowledged a sexual relationship with Murray."

Does the non-straight imperative for discretion extend even to lying in court or to police?

If LGBT people between then and now had learned a life lesson and kept their mouths shut, we'd still be routinely put in such positions. But because of the courage of outspoken individuals insisting on living their lives, the world has progressed and continues to progress. One evidence of said progress is that the UK is finally admitting that what they did to Turing, who should have been a national hero, was wrong. No, of course it doesn't help the long dead Turing...it helps the rest of us.

I for one am celebrating.

*shuts mouth, puts head down, and gets off rooftop*

[MetaSexual2]

"We can only see a short distance ahead, but we can see plenty there that needs to be done." Turing 1950