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Sexual preference and political alignment
I've changed quite a bit over the last few years. I suppose some of it is just growing up. Most of my twenties I was a super hardcore liberal. As I get older I find myself rejecting a lot of the political ideas of my punk rock fueled youth in favor of more traditional and/or conservative ones.
Go ahead. Call me a fascist or an extremist. Get it out of your system now so I can move on.
Still with me? Ex-cellent.
Where was I? Oh yes. My next thought comes in the form of a question.
How much bearing (if any) do you let your sexual identity have on your political perspective and why?
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
The first thought/response that crossed my mind was...absolutely none. Then upon a bit of introspection I realized that sexually I am pretty much middle of the road(bisexual) with a slight lean to the right (hetero). And guess what? Pretty much the same politically. Not a conscious thing obviously but....hmmm. Good thought provoking question!
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
Warrior Poet 69
The first thought/response that crossed my mind was...absolutely none. Then upon a bit of introspection I realized that sexually I am pretty much middle of the road(bisexual) with a slight lean to the right (hetero). And guess what? Pretty much the same politically. Not a conscious thing obviously but....hmmm. Good thought provoking question!
Thanks for your input. I just got an itch to pose this question recently. A lot of my friends are to the left of friggin' Trotsky and can't seem to understand why any queer person would not be. More than anything I despise being told what to think because I'm this or that.
Regards-
Tom
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
Tom,
Well, my bisexuality is in complete contrast with my political views.
I was raised in a conservative, evangelical Christian household. I am still not out to my family and friends because of it. I am actually mostly hetero, but have been with guys and enjoyed it a lot.
On the issue of LGBT priorities, I see both sides of the issues and it really tears at me.
On almost everything else, well . . . let's put it this way, President Reagan was a major influence on me and one of the reasons I enlisted. I think, actually, I am to the right of him on most issues, but especially fiscally. I am EXTREMELY conservative there.
Peace, through superior firepower is also a motto I strongly believe in.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
It all rather depends whether we are more concerned with our human values or our freedom to be and the things which make us most human. My sexual identity has no bearing on my political values, neither do they on my sexual identity.. one is determined by my human values, the other by the fact that I am... and both tell me the same thing... I am no turkey and don't vote for xmas...
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CelticBerserker
Go ahead. Call me a fascist or an extremist. Get it out of your system now so I can move on.
How much bearing (if any) do you let your sexual identity have on your political perspective and why?
Fascist.
None save desiring to have a society where people may have a husband and wife, a woman can have a husband and wife, a man can too. I do not foresee that happening no matter what political ideology of today one chooses.
I also truly believe unless the common people rise up and deliberately take power from the corrupt leaders and establish a sane form of autonomy based on common law, we'll keep hearing the refrain of the 'song that remains the same'. That song is probably what you see as fascist jackboots on the human face.
I dislike that system and try to remain out of it as best able, meaning I am apt to not be political. My notions regarding that are keen to Lao Tzu's, good leaders lead by example and people follow the example voluntarily without realizing they are lead. We are not there yet despite my belief that we should be. This makes me disillusioned and disappointed with the state of human potentiality.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
falcondfw
Peace, through superior firepower is also a motto I strongly believe in.
You then, would understand a solution my father in law put forward regarding the Middle East. "We need to make it (the Middle East) a glass parking lot." For those whom don't comprehend, when a nuclear explosion occurs material is converted to base elements and superheated in a flash, cooled in a flash too. As the Middle East is largely sand, you'd end up with glass left.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
I don't see how my political views re affected by my sexuality.
Rather, I think with age (maturity) one tends to have a more even sense of the world.
In my youth I was probably not interested, but maybe had a soft spot for "causes." (no, I never burned a bra.)
With maturity, although far from a conservative, I appreciate how the world works a bit more - that capital and labour and sensible finances are critical for any country.
The world needs radical thinkers, but as long as they only think......... otherwise you get Pol Pot!
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
Post 5
"I am no turkey and don't vote for xmas..."
Well, this statement took me a second to catch on to. ;)
I agree with it in the sense if you are X(bisexual let's consider), why would you vote for a political belief that was going to harm you?
The use of words like "conservative" and "liberal" are really societal based. I suspect that those posters from the US who call themselves "conservatives" are different from those who call themselves "conservatives" in Canada (maybe Britain) depending upon the issue.
A conservative Canadian and British would be more inclined to support universal health care, strict gun laws(not all Canuck conservatives would support strong gun laws though). Even on the issue of same sex marriage, you may find conservatives in Canada and Britain supporting it more likely than a US conservative.
As far as myself, no my sexuality has little significance on my political view of myself as a person who is inclined to see his views as liberal. As the OP states, I do find my political views less "liberal" as I travel through life. I wonder why some/many of us do that though?
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
All I can say is most LGBT types I've know tend to lean fairly strong to the left, with the exception of one guy I know who I'd have to describe a right wing conservative. Myself, I've evolved from a moderate conservative type to libertarian, which I'm surprised to find few LGBT types identify as. I would think gay, lez and bi folks would be the first to have a live and let live, libertarian type philosophy.
Along that line, anybody ever taken the World's Smallest Political Quiz? You might be surprised where you end up on the chart. I naturally end up as a libertarian. If most here end up in the liberal/authoritarian areas, maybe my personal observations are pretty close to reality?
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
I'm bisexiual, retired from the military, pro-choice, anti illegal alien, ..... and conservative. I was an independent for several years because I do not tolerate anyone telling me what to think. I rejoined the republican party in order to vote against McCain in the 2010 primary. My sexuality has nothing to do with my political opinions.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
fredtyg
All I can say is most LGBT types I've know tend to lean fairly strong to the left, with the exception of one guy I know who I'd have to describe a right wing conservative. Myself, I've evolved from a moderate conservative type to libertarian, which I'm surprised to find few LGBT types identify as. I would think gay, lez and bi folks would be the first to have a live and let live, libertarian type philosophy.
Many do, Fred... libertarianism is a left wing concept outside of the US and libertarian socialism well known and common as a philosophy outside of ur country and has many adherents... libertarianism was originally a concept of the left whichever way we look at it but is more readily identified as left wing or social anarchism.... right wing libertarianism is a Johnny come lately in relative terms and the term adopted in the US to describe the socially liberal and fiscally, economically and politically conservative and pro capitalist whereas that of the left, anti capitalist and pro socialist.. Noam Chomsky was a Libertarian but not one I think u would readily identify with.. and I have sometimes described myself as such. Many gay, lesbian and bisexual people around the world identify themselves in the same way, and if they do not in the US it is likely to be because Libertarianism in the US means something quite different and what u would call Libertarian is not a word that the socially liberal but politically conservative outside of the US would dream of describing themselves as. Libertarianism is not a concept owned by the right however much those libertarians in the US might wish to claim otherwise.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
Some interesting thoughts from all.
@Fran- What to you constitutes the core of "Libertarian Socialism"? I've always thought of the two terms as being in direct opposition to one another. I have a friend who identifies as such and she's never really articulated it to me beyond her obvious contempt for capitalism.
Also, I think your definition of American Libertarianism is a bit of an oversimplification. There's a lot of factions within the American Libertarian movement, some who are not socially liberal at all. In spite of their social conservatism, I think the main goal of these (and most) libertarians is to get the govt. out of every inane little aspect of our lives.
I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
CelticBerserker
Some interesting thoughts from all.
@Fran- What to you constitutes the core of "Libertarian Socialism"? I've always thought of the two terms as being in direct opposition to one another. I have a friend who identifies as such and she's never really articulated it to me beyond her obvious contempt for capitalism.
Also, I think your definition of American Libertarianism is a bit of an oversimplification. There's a lot of factions within the American Libertarian movement, some who are not socially liberal at all. In spite of their social conservatism, I think the main goal of these (and most) libertarians is to get the govt. out of every inane little aspect of our lives.
I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it.
It is also contempt for the great lumbering ox of state socialism as much as capitalism... libertarianism is a an invention the the left and many, including me,, are of the opinion that a truly socialist society cannot exist where a burocracy and monolothic state exists.. the Soviet Union was neither communist or socialist but a monstrous burocracy and tyranny where the hopes and aspirations of its people were eliminated.. it was a system of state capitalism in effect with power placed in the hands of a chosen few sometimes elected from within an elite but as often appointed by a single person......libertarianism of the left is about power being retained in the hands of the bottom rung of society and not crushed under foot by the monstrosity of the state and any "godlike" figure or elite which may run it. It is a misnomer the expression "bottom rung" since there would in fact be no bottom rung... or top rung... it is anarchy...not what most probably think of as anarchy, but a way of human beings getting along and prospering without the monolith of the state to crush their dreams and aspirations. and to protect their freedoms.....all equal with equal rights and obligations and equal "power".. a system of co-operation and mutual support between all human beings where no elite exists. The self regulation of a society for the well being of all by all within it on an equal basis..... the state would not be brought under the control of the people for the state would cease to exist and have no meaning...
It is an ideal society.. one for millennia in the future.. not for now.. but one which we on the left, or at least large numbers of us see as the ultimate end of a journey to achieve true human contentment. We are idealists but not silly about it.. each step we take towards making our world a little more socialist is a step closer to achieving an end.. not all socialists agree with us.. they are men and women in my opinion of much more limited vision and ambition for humanity.. true libertarianism.. left libertarian socialism or anarchy may indeed never be achievable.. but without our dreams and our ambitions for our own kind what are we? We strive to be as perfect as we can be...and with each generation we make small steps.. I have my dreams and do my little bit to help humanity get there.. I will never see it.. but I do believe it is perfectly feasible many many generations hence...
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
I'm a middle of the road bisexual, but I am Liberal. On some things I am VERY liberal, on others I would be called Conservative but that's because of their lack of understanding of the basics of political maneuvering. At most you could not cal me a hardcore left, more of a left of Center to Middle Center. I firmly believe working for ones self foremost and to the detriment of others deserves you a solid punch in the face. Make love not war, but if you fuck with my loved ones(and you'd be amazed how many I love) you'll be sprouting arrows from my bow like a porcupine would be my motto.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
darkeyes
It is also contempt for the great lumbering ox of state socialism as much as capitalism... libertarianism is a an invention the the left and many, including me,, are of the opinion that a truly socialist society cannot exist where a burocracy and monolothic state exists.. the Soviet Union was neither communist or socialist but a monstrous burocracy and tyranny where the hopes and aspirations of its people were eliminated.. it was a system of state capitalism in effect with power placed in the hands of a chosen few sometimes elected from within an elite but as often appointed by a single person......libertarianism of the left is about power being retained in the hands of the bottom rung of society and not crushed under foot by the monstrosity of the state and any "godlike" figure or elite which may run it. It is a misnomer the expression "bottom rung" since there would in fact be no bottom rung... or top rung... it is anarchy...not what most probably think of as anarchy, but a way of human beings getting along and prospering without the monolith of the state to crush their dreams and aspirations. and to protect their freedoms.....all equal with equal rights and obligations and equal "power".. a system of co-operation and mutual support between all human beings where no elite exists. The self regulation of a society for the well being of all by all within it on an equal basis..... the state would not be brought under the control of the people for the state would cease to exist and have no meaning...
It is an ideal society.. one for millennia in the future.. not for now.. but one which we on the left, or at least large numbers of us see as the ultimate end of a journey to achieve true human contentment. We are idealists but not silly about it.. each step we take towards making our world a little more socialist is a step closer to achieving an end.. not all socialists agree with us.. they are men and women in my opinion of much more limited vision and ambition for humanity.. true libertarianism.. left libertarian socialism or anarchy may indeed never be achievable.. but without our dreams and our ambitions for our own kind what are we? We strive to be as perfect as we can be...and with each generation we make small steps.. I have my dreams and do my little bit to help humanity get there.. I will never see it.. but I do believe it is perfectly feasible many many generations hence...
Interesting. It sounds somewhat utopian to me, but you've given me something new to think about regardless.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
I vote with my wallet, not with my dick. I've been a conservative all my life. It does make coming to grips with my sexual exploration a little more difficult, but...I gotta be me.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
This is an interesting topic, and one I'm almost afraid to get involved in. Although I can't say my sexuality defines my political leanings, I can say that all my life I have leaned to the left of center. I live in Canada now, but I am an American from the West Coast and share many of the stereotypical viewpoints of West Coast Liberalism. I feel more comfortable in Canada now than I do in the US because most Conservatives in Canada have no problem with gay marriage (my daughter is married to a woman). Most Conservatives in Canada also believe in the importance of universal health care. It's hard for us to fathom the fact that there are more Americans without health care than there is people in all of Canada. To us, that is like watching your sister bleed to death while you sit on a pile of bandages.
Taking care of your own is not handing out freebies to people, it's providing them with an opportunity to remain productive members of society while they are in need. People don't build homes in safety nets, they fall into them, crawl out, and start climbing again.
The tax system here in Canada makes more sense to me too. When you have more, you pay more taxes. There are fewer loopholes and more people pay their share. And you know what? Canada has one of the strongest economies of the modern world, despite its over-dependence on the US and its economic health.
So in short, in Canada, I guess I'm a centrist. In the U.S., I lean way left. But that has nothing to do with the fact I'm bisexual.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
CelticBerserker
Interesting. It sounds somewhat utopian to me, but you've given me something new to think about regardless.
It is Tom.. utopia and the human search for an ideal state of being is exacty what it is about...:)
,,and if I can return to my definition of right wing libertarianism, it is a confused morass of differing philosophies.. socially liberal in American terms.. not European.. to a European liberal means something quite different.. there is indeed much play on keeping the state out of peoples lives by conservative libertarians in the US... when many really mean is to allow the market to run free, keep the state out of their lives, expand personal freedom not for the liberty of all but to allow free reign to liberty for an elite..their interpretation is an illusion, for what they want is personal freedom for them and their own kind to determine the personal freedom of all.. the Tea party is a classic example..you may argue as an American friend of mine does (a registered Republican) who lives here that the Tea Party is not libertarian, but that isn't what I found when in your country.. of course not all American libertarians are such.. many are classically socially libertarian, but American libertarianism does tend to breed an intolerance which I found for myself on my recent visit to the US because its roots are not in egalitarianism.... no state interference except that which we decide seems to be more their tenet.. they will deny it but from the discussions I held with the few I met in the US, and those I have met here that seems to be how it is. It is but my interpretation of how they are but it is how I found it to be...
.. don't get me wrong... on the left there are many dogmatic and nasty "libertarians"... just as I do not accept many Americans as libertarians within the philosophy of American libertarianism, I do not accept the worst of left wing libertarians as such within the philosophies of libertarian socialism.. many are as much socially restrictive and exclusive in their own way as the worst of those in the US.. not bigoted in the sense that they are for instance anti gay or bisexual, anti female, anti abortion or birth control or anti sex and sex education, but they are judgemental to a fault and remarkably puritanical and intolerant of not just capitalism, conservatism and fascism, but also of other philosophies of socialism including others of the libertarian variety.. and they fail to see the contradictions in their view...their view is not to live and let live and allow freedom for all and people to decide how to live but to argue within the community for their view of how to live to prevail and legislate accordingly and have it imposed.. they are about imposing their ways and their standards on all admittedly through consensus within the community, but even with consensus, imposition is hardly libertarian...that libertarianism is not and never has been about.. they will and often do take great offence at this when I have challenged them and they are as intolerant of and often belligerent towards difference in their own way as the libertarians of the right.. and just as hypocritical.
Neither the philosophies of right or left libertarianism can be placed in a box and it be said that this is how it is.. both are complex and both have strands which go all over the place and each has many different strands.. I would argue that right wing libertarianism is a myth for it is not how I envisage libertarianism and is quite another beast for to be libertarian we need eglitarianism. That is but a personal view and no doubt you will disagree.. but so too is much of left wing libertarianism a myth.. but not all, and those who believe broadly as as I do are as close as there is.. in my view.. and I do admit to having a vested interest in saying that.. cos it is so much of my being...:)
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
void_dweller
Fascist.
Lol!. I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist. I'll get you for that :P
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
CelticBerserker
Lol!. I knew someone wouldn't be able to resist. I'll get you for that :P
Well, you did say we should go ahead and get it done with. ;) :p
N.B. I am obviously joking with Tom, and not exactly calling him names. I knew he would get a chuckle out of someone being a cheesy sod and doing as he said.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
nope!...my sexuality does not determine how I view the world politically generally. In other words, I'm not going to necessarily cast a vote based on my sexuality unless a political party decides to start doing witch hunts on LGBT people which is unlikely but not out of the realm of possibility...I consider myself an Independent with leanings Libertarian and with the Greens...I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative and if the environment goes, there'll be no money or jobs to be made if the planet is unfit to sustain us.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
ErosUrge
nope!...my sexuality does not determine how I view the world politically generally. In other words, I'm not going to necessarily cast a vote based on my sexuality unless a political party decides to start doing witch hunts on LGBT people which is unlikely but not out of the realm of possibility...
It can easily be argued, the the Republican Party is doing just that Eros.. at least a very large section of it.. the section that has the rest of it running scared....
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
darkeyes
It can easily be argued, the the Republican Party is doing just that Eros.. at least a very large section of it.. the section that has the rest of it running scared....
What about this?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories...343.html?hp=r5
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
CelticBerserker
I said it could easily be argued, Tom.. and is by some... they and certainly the religious wing and the self styled Tea Party wings (if they are different and that is a matter of debate) are the greatest barrier to progress that the the lgbt in the US faces...even the Nazis had their gays and bi peeps but were hardly friendly to them in society... and the Tories have their fair share here but at least officially they are pro lgbt rights and (their leader and many others) pro same sex marriage.... even if I may be so bold as to suggest the BNP..and they are anything but pro gay and would have us hunted own like dogs...
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
I've been everywhere on the political spectrum from moderate conservative, very far left quasi-socialist, libertarian, moderate liberal, and now I have become pretty apolitical especially with this year's election and how I do not like either Obama or Romney.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
I suppose that depends on how one defines progress. I do however think drawing the nazi comparison is a bit of a reach. To me, not voting for someone purely on the issue of queer rights is single issue isolationist chicken shit.
What really pisses me off are asshats like Dan Savage calling Republican LGBT people 'House Faggots'. People like him add nothing useful to the dialogue.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
I'm socially liberal (bi-sexual, nudist, pro-choice, married to a bisexual, pro gay marriage, pansexual activist) but politically conservative. I'm sure some would say I'm fucked up. But am happy in my skin.
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
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Originally Posted by
CelticBerserker
I suppose that depends on how one defines progress. I do however think drawing the nazi comparison is a bit of a reach. To me, not voting for someone purely on the issue of queer rights is single issue isolationist chicken shit.
What really pisses me off are asshats like Dan Savage calling Republican LGBT people 'House Faggots'. People like him add nothing useful to the dialogue.
Maybe it is maybe it isn't Tom... but I used the Nazi's as an illustration that a party or group can be full of gays and bi's yet be intolerant of them and wish them harm.. a response no more to the link u posted...
..... and I agree with u on why we should or should not vote for a particular group or party... unfortunately u living in a "democracy" which has such little choice having really only 2 options puts u on the spot... we have a multi party system no just 2 parties and so we do have more choice, but many gay and bi's still vote for parties which wish them harm or at least do not wish them good.. it is an act of choice really.. whether we put our material well being before our spiritual if u like.. it is all very well being prosperous and having a wealthy nation, but if huge numbers of people are considered second class citizens, denied the liberties and freedoms of the majority and facing bigotry and base prejudice every day of their lives, is the material well being worth it?
Personally I would rather live in place where people were less well off yet compassion and tolerance of all was the paramount virtue of a country no matter gender, sexuality, race, religion or creed... and so I could never bring myself to vote for a party which promised me the material earth, yet would deny me the freedom and rights simply because I am gay or black, or asian or poor and unemployed or anything else... I could never vote for a party which may guarantee people being well off, more money, jobs, guarantee the nation being more prosperous, yet impose social policies which would in other ways disenfranchise and impoverish the soul of the nation by denying these things to huge numbers on the grounds of "we dont like them"... and so I say, materialistic girl that I am,and I have never denied it, I will sacrifice my materialism on the basis of compassion and tolerance and the spiritual good of all.. which is why I say I am no turkey..
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Re: Sexual preference and political alignment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CelticBerserker
I suppose that depends on how one defines progress. I do however think drawing the nazi comparison is a bit of a reach. To me, not voting for someone purely on the issue of queer rights is single issue isolationist chicken shit.
What really pisses me off are asshats like Dan Savage calling Republican LGBT people 'House Faggots'. People like him add nothing useful to the dialogue.
Thank you. been trying to come up with an apt description of Savage for some time. ass hat fits perfectly. how he ever got into the position he's in with his fucked up versions of reality, is probably a great basis for a group psychology paper.